So I've been away from competition for a long time, but i see a lot of people setting up thier cars with the same width front and rear. Just wondering what problem this might have solved. It strikes me that bigger front tires will simply induce more oversteer, which was not what the car needed, IMHO. But I'm hopeful some of you can educate me.

 

If you type: "non-staggered setup" into this forum's search bar

You'll get quite a good primer on it.

What competition specifically are you looking to do with your car?
Then we can help you determine if non-staggered would work for you.

Your question is a little underdeveloped and a little below the level that we normally function at in this subforum.

Fundamentally, you are mish-mashing two different things:
1. balance of the car (oversteer / understeer)
2. overall grip and lap times

As this is a Racing and Competition subforum, you can assume that #2 is what we optimize first and then tune #1 with alignment/shock/spring/sway/ride height.

 

You can rotate your tires. It doesnt add more oversteer. But it almost completely eliminates understeer. Still, you have to consider your entire car set up. Square tires with a front sway and square spring rates works well with balanced aero. If you think that car is too loose, its likely driver induced oversteer not a car problem.

 

To take that further as an example:

Take a stock AP1 on Bridgestone Potenza S02s on track.
Put 205 Hoosier A6s up front and leave the rears alone.
It's going to oversteer like crazy, but you didn't change the width of the tires.

Take that same stock AP1 and use stock sized Hoosier A6s.
It is still probably going to oversteer like crazy with the additional grip and weight transfer.

Now put a stiffer front suspension on. Swaybar / spring / shock / whatever you like.
It may not oversteer as much.

You can get a car to oversteer or understeer on pretty much any tire / wheel configuration by changing variables in alignment / sway bar / spring / shock / ride height.

Most people go to square setup if their ruleset allows it + suspension changes. Easier to rotate tires, manage wear, have spares, etc.

So the question remains: Bill, what are you looking to do with your car and what ruleset are you bound by?

 

I'm not looking to do anything, but thanks for the question. I was just noticing a LOT of people on the S2000 Talk forum talking about installing the same size wheel and tire front and rear. I just couldn't understand why. I auto crossed my car for three seasons with both stock S-O2 tires and Hoosiers with a front Saner bar. I always kept the offset. I never thought it needed more front tire.

I guess I also don't understand the distinction between "grip" and over/understeer. The first is a general characteristic, the second is a specific car's behavior at the limit of the general characteristic. How do you see them as two different things?

 

So it seems to be an issue on the track. I get the understeer elimination or reduction. Again, that is what I would expect. Now that I think of it, I also get that the oversteer would not be increased in the sense that it would let go earlier. I guess I was just thinking that if the front end sticks to an even higher degree, then the rear end will always be the first thing to let go, thus increasing the frequency of oversteer.

 

I personally find it easier to manage one axle rather than 2. Some people prefer a little push.

 

The first is NOT a general characteristic. We're talking about "how do I get more overall grip within the limit of my class rules."

If you don't ever get or utilize max grip, then you don't need more.

If you can get more grip (aero is an example) AND you can use it, it will be faster IF the suspension supports it.

Oversteer / understeer is often subjective and easily modifiable. Increasing grip is not.

 

Again, Bill your model in your head doesn't account for springs and sways. STR autocross class pretty much all run square setup. My T3 club race CR also square. Not oversteery at all. The difference? Stiffer front springs than stock.

 

Any class rules aside, if you want the most total grip out of the car, you will end up with a staggered fitment, simply because that’s what the stock body makes room for. There is approx 1.5" of more area in the rear that can be utilized, so if you maximize the cars fitment, this is what you will end up with. From there you "tune" the suspension to cater to how you want to mange that grip.