Why Square when Factory Stagger?
Joined: Jan 2008
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Originally Posted by c32b' timestamp='1344412767' post='21921083
[quote name='SaBa' timestamp='1344408160' post='21921011']
My guess would be tire rotation, cost effective!
My guess would be tire rotation, cost effective!
there are people who go fast on staggered and those who go fast non staggered. The devil is in the details of the setup.
[/quote]
I wrote and meant cross rotated.. What you are talking is a front to rear rotation. I have the rear left tyre become the front right tyre and so on which requires dismounting the tyre from the rim. In doing so, you even out the wear.
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,593
Likes: 75
Originally Posted by spdracerut' timestamp='1344437176' post='21921629
[quote name='c32b' timestamp='1344412767' post='21921083']
[quote name='SaBa' timestamp='1344408160' post='21921011']
My guess would be tire rotation, cost effective!
[quote name='SaBa' timestamp='1344408160' post='21921011']
My guess would be tire rotation, cost effective!
there are people who go fast on staggered and those who go fast non staggered. The devil is in the details of the setup.
[/quote]
I wrote and meant cross rotated.. What you are talking is a front to rear rotation. I have the rear left tyre become the front right tyre and so on which requires dismounting the tyre from the rim. In doing so, you even out the wear.
[/quote]
Cross rotating will be overkill for most people. With the 22k miles I have on the current set of tires, I've only rotated front to rear twice and that's where the majority of the wear difference is. Left to right, my wear has been very even. I have to say, I help to even out the wear by doing track days in clockwise and counter clockwise directions evenly. If doing track days in only one direction, you will see more uneven wear side-to-side. Of course, if the tire setup is the standard stagger, there's no option to rotate period.
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Joined: Apr 2011
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From: Pleasanton / Chico
Originally Posted by spdracerut' timestamp='1344437176' post='21921629
[quote name='c32b' timestamp='1344412767' post='21921083']
[quote name='SaBa' timestamp='1344408160' post='21921011']
My guess would be tire rotation, cost effective!
[quote name='SaBa' timestamp='1344408160' post='21921011']
My guess would be tire rotation, cost effective!
there are people who go fast on staggered and those who go fast non staggered. The devil is in the details of the setup.
[/quote]
I wrote and meant cross rotated.. What you are talking is a front to rear rotation. I have the rear left tyre become the front right tyre and so on which requires dismounting the tyre from the rim. In doing so, you even out the wear.
[/quote]
Why would you take the tire off the wheel to rotate it? I would only do this if you need to flip it because of camber wear. Otherwise just use asymmetric tires that can go either direction or just have your directional tires facing backwards (as long as you don't drive through any standing water)
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Im squared and my camber settings for the front is -2 and rear -3 which is slightly off from oem spec but technically if i was to rotate tires, would I need another alignment because of how my front and rear is cambered?
Joined: Apr 2002
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From: Raleigh
No, you're good. I don't think I understand your train of thought regarding the question.
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,279
Likes: 9
[/quote]
Cross rotating will be overkill for most people. With the 22k miles I have on the current set of tires, I've only rotated front to rear twice and that's where the majority of the wear difference is. Left to right, my wear has been very even. I have to say, I help to even out the wear by doing track days in clockwise and counter clockwise directions evenly. If doing track days in only one direction, you will see more uneven wear side-to-side. Of course, if the tire setup is the standard stagger, there's no option to rotate period.
[/quote]
What alignment do u run?
Cross rotating will be overkill for most people. With the 22k miles I have on the current set of tires, I've only rotated front to rear twice and that's where the majority of the wear difference is. Left to right, my wear has been very even. I have to say, I help to even out the wear by doing track days in clockwise and counter clockwise directions evenly. If doing track days in only one direction, you will see more uneven wear side-to-side. Of course, if the tire setup is the standard stagger, there's no option to rotate period.
[/quote]
What alignment do u run?
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,279
Likes: 9
[/quote]
Why would you take the tire off the wheel to rotate it? I would only do this if you need to flip it because of camber wear. Otherwise just use asymmetric tires that can go either direction or just have your directional tires facing backwards (as long as you don't drive through any standing water)
[/quote]
Yes I do it due to camber wear. I also live in a tropical region where it rains frequently so I'd rather keep to the direction stated.
Why would you take the tire off the wheel to rotate it? I would only do this if you need to flip it because of camber wear. Otherwise just use asymmetric tires that can go either direction or just have your directional tires facing backwards (as long as you don't drive through any standing water)
[/quote]
Yes I do it due to camber wear. I also live in a tropical region where it rains frequently so I'd rather keep to the direction stated.
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,593
Likes: 75
Front:
-2.3, 0 toe
Rear:
-2.8, 3/16" toe-in
On the rear, I do get more inside wear than outside. On my next alignment, I'm probably going to go back to 1/8" toe-in on the rear as I've been adjusting my suspension setup and it's a little on the tight side. Going back to 1/8" should help with the rear wear a bit. Right now, the insides of the rears are about bald and I have maybe 2mm of tread left on the outside of the tire. It has been about 8k miles or so since I last rotated front to rear, so the front wear is more even across the width of the tire; i.e. still tread left on the insides.
-2.3, 0 toe
Rear:
-2.8, 3/16" toe-in
On the rear, I do get more inside wear than outside. On my next alignment, I'm probably going to go back to 1/8" toe-in on the rear as I've been adjusting my suspension setup and it's a little on the tight side. Going back to 1/8" should help with the rear wear a bit. Right now, the insides of the rears are about bald and I have maybe 2mm of tread left on the outside of the tire. It has been about 8k miles or so since I last rotated front to rear, so the front wear is more even across the width of the tire; i.e. still tread left on the insides.
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Joined: Jun 2007
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Originally Posted by s2000Junky' timestamp='1344399989' post='21920866
I generally don't agree in the philosophy of adding a thicker front sway bar to regain rear traction bias again, it doesn't makes any sense, it defeats the purpose of adding traction up front to begin with, why not just leave it staggered then.
-Why? Adding a thicker sway bar removes weight transfer and ultimately reduces traction, the point of adding more rubber is to increase traction. Too thick a sway bar and you just canceled out the modification.
Sway bars add body control primarily, secondarily can be used to balance traction front to rear among other means in the tool box. Adding more traction up front first and then adding the sway bar makes no sense in this regard.
- I agree, but simply saying run a thicker sway bar as an automatic after adding wider front tires is a misnomer, not always is it appropriate, nore does it offer any conclusion of how much thicker would be appropriate.
So with this, one other problem I see is you can almost always have more room to run more rubber in the rear where the wheels are fixed, unlike the front.
- Not true, the 295/35/17 on the back of my car would state otherwise. These have 20mm added width and the same overall height profile as a 255/40 so no gearing differences.
Also on a rear wheel drive car, your asking more duty from a tire that has to propel the car forward, so almost always having more rubber in the rear is going to create a more balanced car to control. This is my 02.
- I don’t entirely disagree with that. More rubber first does give you more flexibility to tune your car to its MAX grip potential, whether your using aftermarket sway bars to change the handling and grip bias, or spring rates, or wheel alignment, tire pressure or chassis height etc etc. Knowing how many things can effect available traction to a axel, it’s why I don’t buy into the ‘add front grip, must add thicker sway bar’ philosophy. For one thing, depending on what year S2000 you have, you will have a different weight front and rear sway bar from the get go. 00-01 02-03 04+ all when through bias changes.
Run the appropriate spring rates and settings on your coilovers and chances are good your not going to find any short comings with the sway bars that came on your S.