B Street
06-03-2014, 07:38 AM
#4
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While I think the Z06 is the best car in A Street, and the base Vette is one of the top cars in B Street, let's get our facts straight: out of the nine times A Street or B Street has been contested at Championship Tours so far this year, it's been won by Vettes three times, and of those, once was because there were no other cars in the class. The other two times have been former national champion Lane Borg against non-national champion caliber competition. Three out of nine isn't "most events" in my books.
06-04-2014, 12:25 AM
#7
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Indeed, the Corvettes are misclassed. None of the Corvettes should have been moved at all. It was a knee-jerk reaction by the SAC (stock advisory commitee) that the Corvettes would perform terribly on street tires, and some even thought that when you put street tires on a vette that it would "spin and burst into a ball of fire." So to appease the Corvette crowd, they mistakenly overcompensated by moving all the Corvettes down.
You have to look at GOOD data to see that the Corvettes are misclassed. So far this year, there hasn't been any good head to head match ups with good drivers in Corvettes in AS and BS. One of the reasons I went to Spring Nationals this year was to get hard data on this misclassing. Lane Borg, past National champ and running in BS this year with his base Vette was going to be there, so I wanted to compare my times directly with his. I was driving Jed Peterson's AS S2000 CR, so technically I should have always been faster than Lane. Turns out I wasn't. On the practice course (40ish seconds), Lane was .1 faster. During the ProSolo, Lane had a 71.4, to my 72.6. For the Tour, day 1 results were in the rain so just going off of day 2 times, I got a 65.5 vs his 65.8.
What this tells me is that the CR and the base C5 vette make good competitors to each other. In BS, it will simply crush the regular S2000s, MSR MX5s, ZOK Solstices, Boxsters, etc. Now, if Lane is going this fast in a regular Corvette, imagine how much faster he'd be with 1 inch wider wheels at all corners, 50 more HP and Tq, and a stiffer suspension? That's exactly what you get in Z06. No car in AS will have chance against a Z06 in AS, and no car will have a chance against a base C5 in BS. Plus, the Z06s have a very competitive stock class to play in anyway, SSR!
There hasn't been a good CR vs Z06 matchup yet, so for the SOLE purpose of more data for my letter to the SAC, I'll be going to Crows Landing for the upcoming Pro and Tour the next couple weekends. 2 fast Z06 drivers in the NW have made the switch to Street, and I've heard they've been having very good success with street tires. I never go to a race with the intent of losing, and I will drive my heart out, but I am not expecting to beat the Z06s. My estimation is that I'll get beat by about .8-1.0 seconds in the Pro and about that much for the Tour as well.
What needs to happen when they reclass cars in Sept, is that the Corvettes (and Vipers) need to get moved back into the classes they were in before (Z06/GS vettes back to SS, base C5 into AS). SS has dismal attendance numbers anyway, so putting the Z06/GS back to SS will help numbers, and the GT3 needs to be put on the exclusion list (just for SS, not for SSR). This will allow BS to thrive with lighter/lower hp cars (S2000, MX5, Boxster, etc), as well as AS with moderate hp/weight cars ( base c5 vette, Boxster S, Cayman S, CR, etc).
If you guys like running your stock S2000s competitively in AS/BS, please write letters to the SCCA! They are listening to member input!
James Yom
You have to look at GOOD data to see that the Corvettes are misclassed. So far this year, there hasn't been any good head to head match ups with good drivers in Corvettes in AS and BS. One of the reasons I went to Spring Nationals this year was to get hard data on this misclassing. Lane Borg, past National champ and running in BS this year with his base Vette was going to be there, so I wanted to compare my times directly with his. I was driving Jed Peterson's AS S2000 CR, so technically I should have always been faster than Lane. Turns out I wasn't. On the practice course (40ish seconds), Lane was .1 faster. During the ProSolo, Lane had a 71.4, to my 72.6. For the Tour, day 1 results were in the rain so just going off of day 2 times, I got a 65.5 vs his 65.8.
What this tells me is that the CR and the base C5 vette make good competitors to each other. In BS, it will simply crush the regular S2000s, MSR MX5s, ZOK Solstices, Boxsters, etc. Now, if Lane is going this fast in a regular Corvette, imagine how much faster he'd be with 1 inch wider wheels at all corners, 50 more HP and Tq, and a stiffer suspension? That's exactly what you get in Z06. No car in AS will have chance against a Z06 in AS, and no car will have a chance against a base C5 in BS. Plus, the Z06s have a very competitive stock class to play in anyway, SSR!
There hasn't been a good CR vs Z06 matchup yet, so for the SOLE purpose of more data for my letter to the SAC, I'll be going to Crows Landing for the upcoming Pro and Tour the next couple weekends. 2 fast Z06 drivers in the NW have made the switch to Street, and I've heard they've been having very good success with street tires. I never go to a race with the intent of losing, and I will drive my heart out, but I am not expecting to beat the Z06s. My estimation is that I'll get beat by about .8-1.0 seconds in the Pro and about that much for the Tour as well.
What needs to happen when they reclass cars in Sept, is that the Corvettes (and Vipers) need to get moved back into the classes they were in before (Z06/GS vettes back to SS, base C5 into AS). SS has dismal attendance numbers anyway, so putting the Z06/GS back to SS will help numbers, and the GT3 needs to be put on the exclusion list (just for SS, not for SSR). This will allow BS to thrive with lighter/lower hp cars (S2000, MX5, Boxster, etc), as well as AS with moderate hp/weight cars ( base c5 vette, Boxster S, Cayman S, CR, etc).
If you guys like running your stock S2000s competitively in AS/BS, please write letters to the SCCA! They are listening to member input!
James Yom
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06-04-2014, 07:51 AM
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Indeed, the Corvettes are misclassed. None of the Corvettes should have been moved at all. It was a knee-jerk reaction by the SAC (stock advisory commitee) that the Corvettes would perform terribly on street tires, and some even thought that when you put street tires on a vette that it would "spin and burst into a ball of fire." So to appease the Corvette crowd, they mistakenly overcompensated by moving all the Corvettes down.
You have to look at GOOD data to see that the Corvettes are misclassed. So far this year, there hasn't been any good head to head match ups with good drivers in Corvettes in AS and BS. One of the reasons I went to Spring Nationals this year was to get hard data on this misclassing. Lane Borg, past National champ and running in BS this year with his base Vette was going to be there, so I wanted to compare my times directly with his. I was driving Jed Peterson's AS S2000 CR, so technically I should have always been faster than Lane. Turns out I wasn't. On the practice course (40ish seconds), Lane was .1 faster. During the ProSolo, Lane had a 71.4, to my 72.6. For the Tour, day 1 results were in the rain so just going off of day 2 times, I got a 65.5 vs his 65.8.
What this tells me is that the CR and the base C5 vette make good competitors to each other. In BS, it will simply crush the regular S2000s, MSR MX5s, ZOK Solstices, Boxsters, etc. Now, if Lane is going this fast in a regular Corvette, imagine how much faster he'd be with 1 inch wider wheels at all corners, 50 more HP and Tq, and a stiffer suspension? That's exactly what you get in Z06. No car in AS will have chance against a Z06 in AS, and no car will have a chance against a base C5 in BS. Plus, the Z06s have a very competitive stock class to play in anyway, SSR!
There hasn't been a good CR vs Z06 matchup yet, so for the SOLE purpose of more data for my letter to the SAC, I'll be going to Crows Landing for the upcoming Pro and Tour the next couple weekends. 2 fast Z06 drivers in the NW have made the switch to Street, and I've heard they've been having very good success with street tires. I never go to a race with the intent of losing, and I will drive my heart out, but I am not expecting to beat the Z06s. My estimation is that I'll get beat by about .8-1.0 seconds in the Pro and about that much for the Tour as well.
What needs to happen when they reclass cars in Sept, is that the Corvettes (and Vipers) need to get moved back into the classes they were in before (Z06/GS vettes back to SS, base C5 into AS). SS has dismal attendance numbers anyway, so putting the Z06/GS back to SS will help numbers, and the GT3 needs to be put on the exclusion list (just for SS, not for SSR). This will allow BS to thrive with lighter/lower hp cars (S2000, MX5, Boxster, etc), as well as AS with moderate hp/weight cars ( base c5 vette, Boxster S, Cayman S, CR, etc).
If you guys like running your stock S2000s competitively in AS/BS, please write letters to the SCCA! They are listening to member input!
James Yom
You have to look at GOOD data to see that the Corvettes are misclassed. So far this year, there hasn't been any good head to head match ups with good drivers in Corvettes in AS and BS. One of the reasons I went to Spring Nationals this year was to get hard data on this misclassing. Lane Borg, past National champ and running in BS this year with his base Vette was going to be there, so I wanted to compare my times directly with his. I was driving Jed Peterson's AS S2000 CR, so technically I should have always been faster than Lane. Turns out I wasn't. On the practice course (40ish seconds), Lane was .1 faster. During the ProSolo, Lane had a 71.4, to my 72.6. For the Tour, day 1 results were in the rain so just going off of day 2 times, I got a 65.5 vs his 65.8.
What this tells me is that the CR and the base C5 vette make good competitors to each other. In BS, it will simply crush the regular S2000s, MSR MX5s, ZOK Solstices, Boxsters, etc. Now, if Lane is going this fast in a regular Corvette, imagine how much faster he'd be with 1 inch wider wheels at all corners, 50 more HP and Tq, and a stiffer suspension? That's exactly what you get in Z06. No car in AS will have chance against a Z06 in AS, and no car will have a chance against a base C5 in BS. Plus, the Z06s have a very competitive stock class to play in anyway, SSR!
There hasn't been a good CR vs Z06 matchup yet, so for the SOLE purpose of more data for my letter to the SAC, I'll be going to Crows Landing for the upcoming Pro and Tour the next couple weekends. 2 fast Z06 drivers in the NW have made the switch to Street, and I've heard they've been having very good success with street tires. I never go to a race with the intent of losing, and I will drive my heart out, but I am not expecting to beat the Z06s. My estimation is that I'll get beat by about .8-1.0 seconds in the Pro and about that much for the Tour as well.
What needs to happen when they reclass cars in Sept, is that the Corvettes (and Vipers) need to get moved back into the classes they were in before (Z06/GS vettes back to SS, base C5 into AS). SS has dismal attendance numbers anyway, so putting the Z06/GS back to SS will help numbers, and the GT3 needs to be put on the exclusion list (just for SS, not for SSR). This will allow BS to thrive with lighter/lower hp cars (S2000, MX5, Boxster, etc), as well as AS with moderate hp/weight cars ( base c5 vette, Boxster S, Cayman S, CR, etc).
If you guys like running your stock S2000s competitively in AS/BS, please write letters to the SCCA! They are listening to member input!
James Yom
OP:
I wasn't going to write anything, because I have given up trying to convince people, but, this is precisely what I knew would happen, and what I said many times during the class restructure. I am having more fun than ever in STR, where many different chassis have a legitimate chance at winning and are properly classed. I wish you the best of luck and hope that with enough letters, the Vette's can be classed properly.
06-04-2014, 11:51 AM
#9
I responded out of fustration without doing research. Recently running regionals in Huntsville AL, Chattanooga, TN, and Birmingham in BS with good attendance of 5 to 7 BS cars. Most recently in Birmingham with 5 S2000s and one vette. I ran at the top of the S2000s with several of us bunched within a few tenths just to get blown away by the vette by over .6 seconds on a 30 second course. Chattanooga was just as bad and also lost to the same vette in Huntsville. There is room for me to improve but I need 1 second on a 60 second course to be competitive! To be honest, I could run in regional STR classes with my BS car and be more competitive.......that is sounding like a very good option, especially with this year already looking like a blow out.
06-04-2014, 01:33 PM
#10
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I can agree with that I also think the ap1 should be moved to CS or be allowed to use Ap2 wheels. The BS index is also pretty strong at .831 versus .838 for STR. I could run 8 more inches of wheel width and only get knocked.008 on the index, a set of wheels only is looking pretty good to me in starting my STR development.