B Street
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 124
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Indeed, the Corvettes are misclassed. None of the Corvettes should have been moved at all. It was a knee-jerk reaction by the SAC (stock advisory commitee) that the Corvettes would perform terribly on street tires, and some even thought that when you put street tires on a vette that it would "spin and burst into a ball of fire." So to appease the Corvette crowd, they mistakenly overcompensated by moving all the Corvettes down.
You have to look at GOOD data to see that the Corvettes are misclassed. So far this year, there hasn't been any good head to head match ups with good drivers in Corvettes in AS and BS. One of the reasons I went to Spring Nationals this year was to get hard data on this misclassing. Lane Borg, past National champ and running in BS this year with his base Vette was going to be there, so I wanted to compare my times directly with his. I was driving Jed Peterson's AS S2000 CR, so technically I should have always been faster than Lane. Turns out I wasn't. On the practice course (40ish seconds), Lane was .1 faster. During the ProSolo, Lane had a 71.4, to my 72.6. For the Tour, day 1 results were in the rain so just going off of day 2 times, I got a 65.5 vs his 65.8.
What this tells me is that the CR and the base C5 vette make good competitors to each other. In BS, it will simply crush the regular S2000s, MSR MX5s, ZOK Solstices, Boxsters, etc. Now, if Lane is going this fast in a regular Corvette, imagine how much faster he'd be with 1 inch wider wheels at all corners, 50 more HP and Tq, and a stiffer suspension? That's exactly what you get in Z06. No car in AS will have chance against a Z06 in AS, and no car will have a chance against a base C5 in BS. Plus, the Z06s have a very competitive stock class to play in anyway, SSR!
There hasn't been a good CR vs Z06 matchup yet, so for the SOLE purpose of more data for my letter to the SAC, I'll be going to Crows Landing for the upcoming Pro and Tour the next couple weekends. 2 fast Z06 drivers in the NW have made the switch to Street, and I've heard they've been having very good success with street tires. I never go to a race with the intent of losing, and I will drive my heart out, but I am not expecting to beat the Z06s. My estimation is that I'll get beat by about .8-1.0 seconds in the Pro and about that much for the Tour as well.
What needs to happen when they reclass cars in Sept, is that the Corvettes (and Vipers) need to get moved back into the classes they were in before (Z06/GS vettes back to SS, base C5 into AS). SS has dismal attendance numbers anyway, so putting the Z06/GS back to SS will help numbers, and the GT3 needs to be put on the exclusion list (just for SS, not for SSR). This will allow BS to thrive with lighter/lower hp cars (S2000, MX5, Boxster, etc), as well as AS with moderate hp/weight cars ( base c5 vette, Boxster S, Cayman S, CR, etc).
If you guys like running your stock S2000s competitively in AS/BS, please write letters to the SCCA! They are listening to member input!
James Yom
You have to look at GOOD data to see that the Corvettes are misclassed. So far this year, there hasn't been any good head to head match ups with good drivers in Corvettes in AS and BS. One of the reasons I went to Spring Nationals this year was to get hard data on this misclassing. Lane Borg, past National champ and running in BS this year with his base Vette was going to be there, so I wanted to compare my times directly with his. I was driving Jed Peterson's AS S2000 CR, so technically I should have always been faster than Lane. Turns out I wasn't. On the practice course (40ish seconds), Lane was .1 faster. During the ProSolo, Lane had a 71.4, to my 72.6. For the Tour, day 1 results were in the rain so just going off of day 2 times, I got a 65.5 vs his 65.8.
What this tells me is that the CR and the base C5 vette make good competitors to each other. In BS, it will simply crush the regular S2000s, MSR MX5s, ZOK Solstices, Boxsters, etc. Now, if Lane is going this fast in a regular Corvette, imagine how much faster he'd be with 1 inch wider wheels at all corners, 50 more HP and Tq, and a stiffer suspension? That's exactly what you get in Z06. No car in AS will have chance against a Z06 in AS, and no car will have a chance against a base C5 in BS. Plus, the Z06s have a very competitive stock class to play in anyway, SSR!
There hasn't been a good CR vs Z06 matchup yet, so for the SOLE purpose of more data for my letter to the SAC, I'll be going to Crows Landing for the upcoming Pro and Tour the next couple weekends. 2 fast Z06 drivers in the NW have made the switch to Street, and I've heard they've been having very good success with street tires. I never go to a race with the intent of losing, and I will drive my heart out, but I am not expecting to beat the Z06s. My estimation is that I'll get beat by about .8-1.0 seconds in the Pro and about that much for the Tour as well.
What needs to happen when they reclass cars in Sept, is that the Corvettes (and Vipers) need to get moved back into the classes they were in before (Z06/GS vettes back to SS, base C5 into AS). SS has dismal attendance numbers anyway, so putting the Z06/GS back to SS will help numbers, and the GT3 needs to be put on the exclusion list (just for SS, not for SSR). This will allow BS to thrive with lighter/lower hp cars (S2000, MX5, Boxster, etc), as well as AS with moderate hp/weight cars ( base c5 vette, Boxster S, Cayman S, CR, etc).
If you guys like running your stock S2000s competitively in AS/BS, please write letters to the SCCA! They are listening to member input!
James Yom
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 94
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I can agree with that I also think the ap1 should be moved to CS or be allowed to use Ap2 wheels. The BS index is also pretty strong at .831 versus .838 for STR. I could run 8 more inches of wheel width and only get knocked.008 on the index, a set of wheels only is looking pretty good to me in starting my STR development.
that is what I am thinking. I run a set of OZ wheels with Rivals 225/255 for autocross and stock wheels and contis for DD. Last night I pulled the hub centric rings off the 8.5 OZs and mounted them with the 255s up front, fit great. Took it out to an empty parking lot and flipped it back and forth as if in a slalom. Was able to keep pushing it until the fronts began to give a little. Amazing amounts of grip!!! What a difference compared to the 225s on 7" rims. I am convinced I can make the .008 difference with the front wheels and tire only and I think I can make the switch with just two wheels and two tires.
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 6,014
Likes: 1
From: Seattle, WA
I wouldn't make any decisions based on the assumption that the PAX values will stay the same next year. There's pretty broad agreement that the relationship between the Street and Street Touring PAX values are out of whack (Street's are too strong relative to ST's). If that actually turns out to be the case, one assumes / hopes that the discrepancy will be fixed.
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,342
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Originally Posted by Forcednduckshn' timestamp='1401897101' post='23189437
I wasn't going to write anything, because I have given up trying to convince people
We had a moment at the Pro Finale. 
hahaAnd roger that RE: your point, I agreed with you-
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,578
Likes: 1
From: Kentucky
I can agree with that I also think the ap1 should be moved to CS or be allowed to use Ap2 wheels. The BS index is also pretty strong at .831 versus .838 for STR. I could run 8 more inches of wheel width and only get knocked.008 on the index, a set of wheels only is looking pretty good to me in starting my STR development.
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 238
Likes: 22
From: Savannah, Georgia, USA
We went to the Dixie Tour and the Atlanta Match Tour and saw about the same results for AP1 B-street drivers. I like the AP1 transmission ratios better for autocross, but the wheel size limitation is the killer in BS. I've got a set of Wed-Sport 17x9's with 275/35/17 A6's that will fit the S2k. Maybe I'll try BSP at our next local event...., ;-)
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Joined: Mar 2011
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