High quality dampers for the money?
10-05-2014, 06:29 AM
#81
Originally Posted by bgoetz' timestamp='1412437049' post='23356456
I am really not sure you will notice a huge difference between the two.
It seems there are many people with the Koni/GC that really like them and can't imagine a substantial improvement from a higher dollar shock.
Then there are the few that have experienced both Koni and the DFV. No one in that group seems to indicate the difference was not worth it. As we all know some people just support what they have bought to justify/rationalize their purchase. The truly objective reviewer is difficult to find.
At some point the only way to tell is to make your own move. I will look into it and make my decision. Thanks to all.
10-06-2014, 06:34 AM
#82
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Fortune auto has the valving technology/quality (Japanese and Swedish internal parts) but does not have the R&D knowledge to set the curves to your exact car. I will be working with them over the winter and testing next year to have a OTS profile that is a bit more suited to our cars but it will take some time. However if you have a ideal of what you'd like your critical damping set to they have no problem matching the shape of any profile you desire.
10-06-2014, 10:23 AM
#83
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Originally Posted by SHG_Mike' timestamp='1412101654' post='23350945
Fortune auto has the valving technology/quality (Japanese and Swedish internal parts) but does not have the R&D knowledge to set the curves to your exact car. I will be working with them over the winter and testing next year to have a OTS profile that is a bit more suited to our cars but it will take some time. However if you have a ideal of what you'd like your critical damping set to they have no problem matching the shape of any profile you desire.
From that thread:
I can shed some light on the subject. As aCab stated he knows someone running them, that would be me
I am currently running Fortune Auto 500s with 13k swift springs front&rear and specifically asked from them to be valved aggressively for track/autox use. My first initial impressions were great! These ride very well on the street and were actually more comfortable than OEM. Mind you, I installed these myself, torqued everything to spec, all the pre-loads were done correctly, and I aligned the car myself. That being said, the car was pretty prepared for my first event.
Unfortunately after a few events and dialing the car in, I realized the 500s are definitely not suited for a competitive coilover. First and most importantly,the compression side of the 500s is valved to soft for my liking and more than likely other peoples liking. They do not respond well to high speed transitions as they become very sloppy and loose. Also, they do not take well to bumps on track as the car becomes very unsettled and bouncy. Second, in order for me to make the car handle neutrally I have the front coilovers set at full stiff rebound and the rears set to full soft rebound to keep the rear end tamed. Granted I know having 13k rear spring rates has to do with some of it but I also have the MX-5 FSB Rear sway bar mod done making the rear a lot softer than the front (comptech V2 FSB@full stiff). Not ideal for tuning adjust-ability.
I will say that the 500s are a better compromise for street and a decent autox/track coilover but if your looking to be a top competitor in your class for autox or track I would look at AST, KW, and of course motons/jrz/ohlins/ect... But those are on the much more expensive end. I took a chance going with Fortune Auto since I wanted to build a budget STR build but I will be selling these at the end of the year and will be looking at AST for next year or going back to OEM and build a TTD S2000.
I am currently running Fortune Auto 500s with 13k swift springs front&rear and specifically asked from them to be valved aggressively for track/autox use. My first initial impressions were great! These ride very well on the street and were actually more comfortable than OEM. Mind you, I installed these myself, torqued everything to spec, all the pre-loads were done correctly, and I aligned the car myself. That being said, the car was pretty prepared for my first event.
Unfortunately after a few events and dialing the car in, I realized the 500s are definitely not suited for a competitive coilover. First and most importantly,the compression side of the 500s is valved to soft for my liking and more than likely other peoples liking. They do not respond well to high speed transitions as they become very sloppy and loose. Also, they do not take well to bumps on track as the car becomes very unsettled and bouncy. Second, in order for me to make the car handle neutrally I have the front coilovers set at full stiff rebound and the rears set to full soft rebound to keep the rear end tamed. Granted I know having 13k rear spring rates has to do with some of it but I also have the MX-5 FSB Rear sway bar mod done making the rear a lot softer than the front (comptech V2 FSB@full stiff). Not ideal for tuning adjust-ability.
I will say that the 500s are a better compromise for street and a decent autox/track coilover but if your looking to be a top competitor in your class for autox or track I would look at AST, KW, and of course motons/jrz/ohlins/ect... But those are on the much more expensive end. I took a chance going with Fortune Auto since I wanted to build a budget STR build but I will be selling these at the end of the year and will be looking at AST for next year or going back to OEM and build a TTD S2000.
I apologize if I am a little late on this post (as I don't frequent the forums as much). I worked with Terry from Fortune to build a set of custom valved 510s with 13kg/mm swift springs back in April. My s2k is used mostly for tracking. I have had the benefit of multiple lapping days at 3 local tracks to gather feedback from myself and fellow s2k owners. Fortune did provide me a shock dyno at full hard (not full sweep like above), the rear shocks were valved with slightly less rebound than the fronts. The coils were installed, corner balanced and alignment done accordingly. Overall, I would say they match up well to KW V3/Clubsports (in comparison to other s2ks with these setup). Grip, turn-in, etc is much better than stock. I run these with both 215/245 Michelin street tires and 235/255 NT01 tires (depending on track).
One thing I did noticed was more "bounce" over certain areas on the track, the was most evident after hitting the "turtle" at apex. The car would take a few "hops" to settle down. At the advice of Fortune, I have incrementally increased the rebound to full hard. I now run it full stiff (rebound) all around. This does seem to help settle the bounciness more. I still need some more seat time to assess whether this is ideal. I did notice fellow s2k with KW v3, Moton ClubSport, Penske, etc did not have this "bounce" tendency over the same portion of the track. I am not sure if the lack of compression valving/adjustment have led to this tendency? I have also been told by track side observers, the bounciness is evident. The feeling while driving is the rear seems to be bouncing more than the front. I have tried various settings over the past few months and have settled on full stiff front eibach sway bar, full soft rear eibach sway bar. In addition, I recently installed a 4-point rear sub frame brace which seems to have helped. I am considering trying less spring in the rear (i.e. 11kg/mm) as the next step. Any thoughts? After reading this post, I am now wondering if there is too little compression valving built in? Since it is single adjustment for rebound only, I would need Fortune to completely re-valve. I am not sure if reducing rear spring would help that much....
Aside from this, I would say they perform very well. The product is top notch and I am enjoying them very much on the track. For the money paid, custom valving option and service from Fortune, I am very happy. I don't have any quantifiable results (i.e. lap times, etc) to back up the fact they perform well. There are other s2k drivers (who have driven my car on the track) who can attest to this. I do plan to get a lap timer in the future to help me analyze what small adjustments will do.
I hope this helps and any feedback would be appreciated.
P.S. I have been told by Fortune the shock valve graph above is for a race tuned honda civic (not s2k). My valving (for the 13kg/mm spring) is more like ~200 lbs of low speed force at ~1.0in/sec
One thing I did noticed was more "bounce" over certain areas on the track, the was most evident after hitting the "turtle" at apex. The car would take a few "hops" to settle down. At the advice of Fortune, I have incrementally increased the rebound to full hard. I now run it full stiff (rebound) all around. This does seem to help settle the bounciness more. I still need some more seat time to assess whether this is ideal. I did notice fellow s2k with KW v3, Moton ClubSport, Penske, etc did not have this "bounce" tendency over the same portion of the track. I am not sure if the lack of compression valving/adjustment have led to this tendency? I have also been told by track side observers, the bounciness is evident. The feeling while driving is the rear seems to be bouncing more than the front. I have tried various settings over the past few months and have settled on full stiff front eibach sway bar, full soft rear eibach sway bar. In addition, I recently installed a 4-point rear sub frame brace which seems to have helped. I am considering trying less spring in the rear (i.e. 11kg/mm) as the next step. Any thoughts? After reading this post, I am now wondering if there is too little compression valving built in? Since it is single adjustment for rebound only, I would need Fortune to completely re-valve. I am not sure if reducing rear spring would help that much....
Aside from this, I would say they perform very well. The product is top notch and I am enjoying them very much on the track. For the money paid, custom valving option and service from Fortune, I am very happy. I don't have any quantifiable results (i.e. lap times, etc) to back up the fact they perform well. There are other s2k drivers (who have driven my car on the track) who can attest to this. I do plan to get a lap timer in the future to help me analyze what small adjustments will do.
I hope this helps and any feedback would be appreciated.
P.S. I have been told by Fortune the shock valve graph above is for a race tuned honda civic (not s2k). My valving (for the 13kg/mm spring) is more like ~200 lbs of low speed force at ~1.0in/sec
I just installed the FA 510 v4's yesterday. 10k frontv9k rear. What a mistake on rates. I'm hoping a return for revamp will be fast and adequate.
I'm going to go 12f 11r and have some custom valving. I'm def not a pro when it comes to terminology but I need more grounding. Car feels bouncy in the rear at certain spots on the parkways. I like my 70mph-100 but I need to be planted. I cannot give an accurate review but I will be taking the set off after only two days on and I hope fortune will keep me a satisfied customer.
I'm going to go 12f 11r and have some custom valving. I'm def not a pro when it comes to terminology but I need more grounding. Car feels bouncy in the rear at certain spots on the parkways. I like my 70mph-100 but I need to be planted. I cannot give an accurate review but I will be taking the set off after only two days on and I hope fortune will keep me a satisfied customer.
I have 10k/10k fortunes, and I have a bouncy problem also, certain bumps give me a quick but very unsettling pogo effect. Turning up or down the dampers will harden or soften the feel of the pogo, but the existence of the bouncing itself never goes away, no matter what Ive done.
I've had the chance to drive an S2000 with the fortune 510's. They felt decent overall. However, the mid speed rebound is really lacking. Having followed this car around the track, I was able to see the rear of the car oscillating like a bobble head over small dips and uneven surfaces. My immediate suggestion to the owner was that the dampers need more rebound. It was very easy to see from the outside that they had a hard time controlling the spring during extension. I don't think they are necessarily bad for track use, but I think the valving needs some changes.
10-06-2014, 03:58 PM
#85
Just get the bilstein PSS and add Swift 70mm springs that are 100 lbs greater than than what they come with. It's a better shock than the Koni. Koni yellow stock valving is a crapshoot
10-06-2014, 05:52 PM
#86
Originally Posted by SHG_Mike' timestamp='1412101654' post='23350945
Fortune auto has the valving technology/quality (Japanese and Swedish internal parts) but does not have the R&D knowledge to set the curves to your exact car. I will be working with them over the winter and testing next year to have a OTS profile that is a bit more suited to our cars but it will take some time. However if you have a ideal of what you'd like your critical damping set to they have no problem matching the shape of any profile you desire.
I will post my proposed curve based calculations and what I have compared to other successful dampers. The proportion of comp/rebound and amount of total rebound is off. Like I said the generic curve and settings they use ots is not ideal. But they use ohlins shim stacks and have the super digressive valving that can compare to anything on paper that I have seen. It is my belief that they are capable of building a top quaily shock with next to no cross talk or hysteresis as long as a knowledgable customer provides the R&d and curve they specify.
All of the comments of not enough rebound and too much compression are what i felt as well and the pvp shows exactly that. With revised curves and build these should be an amazing value for money. How often do you get a shock Dyno and quality check on each damper for 1500 a set ready to be installed.
10-07-2014, 12:03 AM
#88
http://www.zf.com/media/media/docume...ing/RDS_zf.pdf
Theoretically you could have a shop like PSI in Sonoma built mounting for the S2000 if you were willing to pay for it, but you might as well get the ASM ones at that point. The ASM dampers should be able to be rebuilt at any shop that deals with Sachs/ZF.
Amuse uses custom valved Bilstein dampers.
The HKS Hypermax III are quite nice for the price as well as their newer kits. Definitely worth a mention.
Cusco and ZEAL also have some nice options but getting them rebuilt outside of Japan is likely not doable.
The ASM/Sachs setups are ones I would absolutely LOVE to try, but even if money was no object I think Ohlins TTX would be the damper I would choose. That said the Sachs and TTX don't have the Dual Flow Valve like my current Ohlins DFV.
10-07-2014, 05:03 AM
#89
All of the cheaper japanese dampers (the ones in OPs price range) are pretty crappy valving, and in addition don't have that support.
An exception is the HKS, they do pretty well for the price, but again the support isn't good. I honestly don't know about the Cusco and Zeal but like I said good Japanese dampers in that price range are the exception rather than the rule.
10-07-2014, 07:49 AM
#90
Anybody consider CR dampers with custom rate GC springs? It seems like a good option for custom ride height and spring rate with a proven OE shock for ~ $1300. Downside is no adjustability, not rebuildable, can't run crazy spring rate. Is there any negative aspect to CR damper performance?