joefish1298

A very valid point, if it were true. If the figures you've quoted were anyway near realistic, you'd be right on the money but they're not.

The differences in cornering g's available from different tires is much smaller than the example you've given, especially within the same tire class as the Wheels and Motor magazine tires tests have shown year after year. If someone could please quote some real figures from either mag, that would help this discussion along. The S02 is not some magic tire that has somehow found extreme levels of grip that no other manufacturer can seem to find or even Bridgestone can find in it's other tires.

The way a tire behaves is not just based on the coefficient of friction between the compound used and the road. Another major factor is sidewall stiffness. As the tire approaches it's limit, how much the sidewall bends and deforms contributes to the feeback the tire gives before it ultimately lets go. Tires with very stiff sidewalls will exhibit snappy characteristics, on an S2K, on a XR6, on anything.

Again, I'd stress the dry vs wet point. I'm not trying to argue that the S02 doesn't gives the best dry cornering ability, given the evidence, it probably does. But there's always a tradeoff especially in dry vs wet, again the annual tire tests clearly show this characteristic. So seeing as more accidents happen in wet conditions isn't the safest tire the best wet weather tire?

RedRover

This is THE crucial point.

In the early years we (at HSCCV) had some contact with the technical Manager at Bridgestone in order to gain some insight into the construction of the S02s. The thing that differentiated the Honda-Spec W-rated S02s from the Porsche-spec Z-rated S02s was the degree of sidewall stiffness. The Honda-spec S02s are built with a sidewall that is stiffer than any other ROAD tyres. However, they are still nowhere near as stiff as a competition tyre (such as RE55S).

The thing that most affects wet weather performance is not the compound but the tread pattern. This is not yet an exact science (if it was - all tyres would have the same tread pattern) so we see some differences in approach. Dunlop FM901s did it well and Goodyear Eagles seem to have done better than most. Sadly, the S02 pattern has proved less effective.

If you're on a tight budget and can only afford one set of wheels & tyres but still wish to track your car occasionally - then Bridgestone S02s are the best choice. You just need to drive more carefully in the wet. If your budget extends to a second set of wheels with competition tyres for track days then you don't need the S02 performance edge for normal suburban/highway driving and can thus consider something else like Continental Contisport or Michelin Pilots (if you have 17" wheels). These two are very good tyres indeed but more expensive than S02s.

Me ? - I tried to buy Michelins but couldn't get them in 16" so then I followed Joe's philosophy and went for the Goodyear Eagles. I think the combination of the stiffer front swaybar and the Goodyear Eagles probably gives me more protection from snap-oversteer than a standard S2000 with S02s. But tyres are a very personal thing - to each his own.

DavidM

The S02 is not some magic tire that has somehow found extreme levels of grip that no other manufacturer can seem to find or even Bridgestone can find in it's other tires.

Bridgestine RE55 generate 1.2G. With proper slicks you'd get even higher ... 1.5G if I remember correctly.

Though, road tyres go up to 1G, and are usualy are in the 0.7 - 0.9G range. There are a few road tyres around that allow (the right) car to generate forces of 1G.

as the Wheels and Motor magazine tires tests have shown year after year

Also keep in mind that the S02s in the magazines are not the same as the S02s on the S2000. 'Regular' S02s are already a brilliant tyre ... I'd argue them to be one of the best, but the ones on the S2000 are supposed to be even better.

I don't have any numbers on the S2000 specific S02s though.

But there's always a tradeoff especially in dry vs wet

I disagree with that. That is if we're talking about 'wet' and not 'standing watter'. In the wet the best tyre is the one that is the grippiest. A warmed up racing slick will be much, much better in the wet than any road tyre that you can buy. And a racing slick has no grooves, but is just made of the softer/grippier rubber.

If you're talking about standing watter then the best tyre would be a bicicle tyre (ie. something really thin) ... but I don't think that is an issue for anyone living in Australia. We really get just 'wet', and very little standing watter.

The kind of wet/standing watter that we get here can be managed even on R-spec tyres with minimal grooves. Not that they're the best tyres for the road, llet alove wet.

So seeing as more accidents happen in wet conditions isn't the safest tire the best wet weather tire?

Do more accidents happen in the wet? I don't know, but I have not seen any study saying one way or the other.

Though, thinking about this logicaly, I would think that a lot more accidents will happen in the dry. That is purely because here in Aus the conditions are dry more than 90% of the time. So I would say if you looked at all the accidents over a year in the wet vs dry, then you'd see a vast majority of them in the dry. I would hesitate to say that the ratio would be at least 70/30 (dry/wet). I'm just guessing here, but I can't see it being too far off given that we have dry conditions 90% (or more) of the time. Which implies that 90% of driving (and Km clocked) are in the dry.

Last of all, I maintain my point that in the wet the S02s are as good (or better) than any other road tyre. Again, I'm not talking about standing watter, as I have not seen much of that since I've been driving.

So back to one of my original points - in the wet the best (and safest)tyre will be the one that has the most grip (no matter what the thread pattern). And in terms of grip, there're are not going to be many tyres that can surpass the S02s which would make them one of the safest tyres in both wet and dry.

RedRover

If you're driving on a road that is wet with a very smooth (or slick) tyre then a layer of water builds up between the tyre and the asphalt. The faster you go the more the layer of water builds up. When the layer of water between the tyre and the asphalt is sufficient to support the weight of the car then the tyre is no longer making contact with the asphalt and you are said to be "aquaplaning".

When this moment arrives it doesn't matter whether the compound of your tyre is made up of plasticine or superglue, you are 100% out of control and heading for big trouble.

The purpose of a tread pattern cut into the tyre is to pump this layer of water away and out from underneath the tyre so that it can continue to make contact with the asphalt. Some tread patterns do this better than others. Naturally, once the tyre comes into contact with the road surface then compound again comes into the equation.

Consequently, the "best" tyre in the wet is one that provides the optimum combination of tread pattern and sticky compound for the conditions it is encountering at that moment. As weather conditions vary so greatly there is no one tyre that is "best" in every circumstance.

DavidM

If you're driving on a road that is wet with a very smooth (or slick) tyre then a layer of water builds up between the tyre and the asphalt

No disagreement there ... I just don't think that's very likely here in Australia. A 100% slick on 'wet' road (with no standing watter) is still gripper than a grooved tyre. Look at the V8 Supercars fo instance. It takes a for a fair bit of water to be falling down before they go and change to wet (ie. grooved) tyres. Anyone who does it too early is just too slow.

So my point is that the secario that you're describing (ie. auqaplaning) in not very likely here ... in particular in a tyre that already has grooves ie. the S02.

Thread pattern makes a difference only in severy conditions where there's a lot of standing water. In those circumstances you'd want the tyre that aquaplains the least. Though, that's not necesarily the tyre with the 'best' thread-pattern, but more likely the thinner tyre. As I mentioned before, bicycle tyre (with no grooves) would probably be the best in that situation.