McLaren's using a form of traction control
Originally Posted by Borbor,Jul 23 2008, 10:53 AM
The "unfair" advantage came from the cleverness. I don't see anything wrong with it. Everyone reads the same rulebook and one organization just happen to have read it better than anyone else.
Exploiting the rules to the limit is what racers do. Every team has done it, so this isn't new.
I wonder however how legitimate this claim is.
Exploiting the rules to the limit is what racers do. Every team has done it, so this isn't new.
I wonder however how legitimate this claim is.
C'mon, this isn't even CLOSE to an "unfair" advantage! It seems easily copied and pushing the limits of the rules is a big part of all forms of pro racing. Could it be banned? Sure. But I'll be peeved if there is any additional penalty.
Originally Posted by mikegarrison,Jul 23 2008, 09:05 AM
So? All auto racing -- all racing, really -- is about getting as much legal yet unfair advantage that you can get.
Mark Donohue
Mark Donohue
from the 2008 fia f1 technical regulations:
"9.3 Traction control
No car may be equipped with a system or device which is capable of preventing the driven wheels from spinning under power or of compensating for excessive throttle demand by the driver.
Any device or system which notifies the driver of the onset of wheel spin is not permitted."
my question how is it legal?
Originally Posted by beanseff,Jul 23 2008, 10:34 AM
i realize that because i do it
from the 2008 fia f1 technical regulations:
"9.3 Traction control
No car may be equipped with a system or device which is capable of preventing the driven wheels from spinning under power or of compensating for excessive throttle demand by the driver.
Any device or system which notifies the driver of the onset of wheel spin is not permitted."
my question how is it legal?
from the 2008 fia f1 technical regulations:
"9.3 Traction control
No car may be equipped with a system or device which is capable of preventing the driven wheels from spinning under power or of compensating for excessive throttle demand by the driver.
Any device or system which notifies the driver of the onset of wheel spin is not permitted."
my question how is it legal?
Traction control, as intended in that rule, is based on measuring wheelspin.
Ok, maybe I'm missing something here, but how do these two agree with each other???
1- 9.3 Traction control- No car may be equipped with a system or device which is capable of preventing the driven wheels from spinning under power or of compensating for excessive throttle demand by the driver.
2- Using two fingers at the same time allows the car always to have the most favourable engine torque setting for each gear, thus giving the driver a tool for limiting wheelspin out of slow corners without then suffering a reduction in power in the higher gears.
It just sounds to me like holding in the 2-levers when needed exiting the corner is limiting the amout of torque being put down, so the driver can very quickly mash the throttle to the floor, and the revised torque application map reduces the chances of power induced oversteer.
1- 9.3 Traction control- No car may be equipped with a system or device which is capable of preventing the driven wheels from spinning under power or of compensating for excessive throttle demand by the driver.
2- Using two fingers at the same time allows the car always to have the most favourable engine torque setting for each gear, thus giving the driver a tool for limiting wheelspin out of slow corners without then suffering a reduction in power in the higher gears.
It just sounds to me like holding in the 2-levers when needed exiting the corner is limiting the amout of torque being put down, so the driver can very quickly mash the throttle to the floor, and the revised torque application map reduces the chances of power induced oversteer.
Originally Posted by Triple-H,Jul 23 2008, 10:43 AM
Ok, maybe I'm missing something here, but how do these two agree with each other???
1- 9.3 Traction control- No car may be equipped with a system or device which is capable of preventing the driven wheels from spinning under power or of compensating for excessive throttle demand by the driver.
2- Using two fingers at the same time allows the car always to have the most favourable engine torque setting for each gear, thus giving the driver a tool for limiting wheelspin out of slow corners without then suffering a reduction in power in the higher gears.
It just sounds to me like holding in the 2-levers when needed exiting the corner is limiting the amout of torque being put down, so the driver can very quickly mash the throttle to the floor, and the revised torque application map reduces the chances of power induced oversteer.
1- 9.3 Traction control- No car may be equipped with a system or device which is capable of preventing the driven wheels from spinning under power or of compensating for excessive throttle demand by the driver.
2- Using two fingers at the same time allows the car always to have the most favourable engine torque setting for each gear, thus giving the driver a tool for limiting wheelspin out of slow corners without then suffering a reduction in power in the higher gears.
It just sounds to me like holding in the 2-levers when needed exiting the corner is limiting the amout of torque being put down, so the driver can very quickly mash the throttle to the floor, and the revised torque application map reduces the chances of power induced oversteer.
Originally Posted by beanseff,Jul 23 2008, 12:50 PM
no matter how you look at it it's still an unfair advantage ,i mean the other teams don't have it . yes it's TECHNICLY legal but it's still cheating on my book
Is that an unfair advantage?
It can't be cheating if it's technically legal.
I know nothing about it other than what I read here, but it seems like this would be the way it would work:
Smooth surface
-- normal: full throttle leads to wheelspin
-- McLaren: torque is lower, so full throttle not as likely to spin wheels
-- TC: wheelspin is directly and automatically controlled
Bumpy/wet/poor surface
-- normal: full throttle leads to wheelspin
-- McLaren: torque is lower, but full throttle still leads to wheelspin
-- TC: wheelspin is directly and automatically controlled
As far as I can tell from what I read here, having the driver remap the engine on the fly is perfectly legal. McLaren just came up with a way to make doing so convenient and easy for the driver.
Now if it turns out this is some hidden backdoor into the ECU -- then THAT would be cheating.
Smooth surface
-- normal: full throttle leads to wheelspin
-- McLaren: torque is lower, so full throttle not as likely to spin wheels
-- TC: wheelspin is directly and automatically controlled
Bumpy/wet/poor surface
-- normal: full throttle leads to wheelspin
-- McLaren: torque is lower, but full throttle still leads to wheelspin
-- TC: wheelspin is directly and automatically controlled
As far as I can tell from what I read here, having the driver remap the engine on the fly is perfectly legal. McLaren just came up with a way to make doing so convenient and easy for the driver.
Now if it turns out this is some hidden backdoor into the ECU -- then THAT would be cheating.
Originally Posted by beanseff,Jul 23 2008, 08:50 AM
no matter how you look at it it's still an unfair advantage ,i mean the other teams don't have it . yes it's TECHNICLY legal but it's still cheating on my book
Majority of teams don't have as much budget as the top ones do. It gives the top teams an unfair advantage so do you consider them to be cheaters?



