That win was a mix of luck and the right strategy (stayed out of the pits) call - nothing to do with spectacular driving...

[QUOTE]and if you want to compare Button's start with the rosso guy? 1 year difference in age is not the same! and having to start in the middle of the season with no testing whatsoever is not the same as preparing and testing!

 

I'll make you a FAIR deal - we'll have this bet next year when BGP doesn't have a head start or a duplicitous ruling to benefit them...

Deal?

But I will give you something now - he does have the talent to win (we have seen that 6 times this year - even if one win was due to team strategy and should have gone to RB - but I am for team orders so don't hold this against JB) - but only when everything lines up for him, he can't make up the gaps when they don't.

 

well, come on matrix, if you think that he doesnt have the talent, then he cant be the champion this year because Brawn GP's car is no longer perfect, right? so if you are really confident of what you said earlier, you should accept the original deal

Button FTW

i bellieve he can and will do it this year. he's talented, and determined to win this year, and he is a very consistent and smooth driver, ok he isn't perfect, but its very rare to see button do a mistake and get himself screwed up because of it.

 

You don't get into F1 without talent - my point is how does he compare to others when his car no longer has an advantage?

Like I said - take the bet for next year. If you truly believe that JB's talent is what got BGP to where it is today, rather than the duplicitous diffuser rule handling, then next year JB should still shine even though the other teams have now "caught up" on the car design...

 

LOL but Button's car no longer have that advantage you are talking about. this year is Button's best chance to take the WDC, who knows what's gonna happen next season. so if he continues to win races in the second half of the season, that will prove that his talent is enough to get him to be WDC and not just drive in F1 as you say.

by you turning down the deal, im afraid that you're afraid that Button can win this WDC. so implicitly, you are admitting that button can do it

 

Nice try - JB HAD the best car and thus built up a lead based on a car advantage not driving advantage. That advantage was due to 2 things:

1 - Honda developing the car early
2 - The diffuser fiasco and the duplicitous way the FIA handled it

We have yet to see if the BGP is off pace or just a blimp due to weather or the tracks didn't suit the car. We also have yet to see JB bring the BGP home when it is not the best car in the field (my original point).

[QUOTE]by you turning down the deal, im afraid that you're afraid that Button can win this WDC. so implicitly, you are admitting that button can do it

 

^^ The never-ending discussion.

Button & BGP will carry this season but it is likely by not very much

Ferrari and McLaren will be back to duke it out next season. If Mercedes leaves the sport as some are speculating, then it'll be winning season for Ferrari all over again.

Only MS in recent history has shown he is capable of winning in an inferior car by extracting its full potential. Button is a very smooth driver, and at least he brings the car home and does not crash as much as the other drivers do. Perhaps his smoothness will help him last the race next season when the refueling ban sets in, and possibly fight for the win.

 

very well said. but alonso also somtimes managed to win with a less than a perfect car, button did in 2006 too qualifying from 14th and winning while passing many cars on the process, vettel showed that he has what it takes to win in wet conditions. but in general the car and driver both have to be a factor for race wins.we cannot judge Button's 2007,08 performance bcz the car was too crappy to do anything well.

LOL on the never ending discussion i think matrix and i wont have a deal. but its ok, i respect matrix's opinion.

 

How many actual racers can do that though? There's no doubt that JB is not in the field of greats like Schumi and Senna. We can also safely say that Alonso is a better racer than him. So how many other racers have been able to win with a not so good car? Kimi? No. Lewis? No. Irvin? No.

JB is and will always be a 2nd tier level racer. Maybe he will have flashes of brilliance but will never challenge the likes of Schumi so don't expect him to.

It's also so hard to tell with todays F1 cars. There are so many variables that its hard to say when its the car. Variables include: setup, track temps, human factors, team strengths, etc

One thing is for sure, JB has always beaten his partner including Trulli and Alonso and that's all you can compare him to.

 

and if you go back to 2006, JB did quite a bit with a mediocre car. I'd rate him just below the top level drivers, but ahead of most of the second & third rung drivers.