Trustd_1

no need to justify things. wasn't trying to call you out exclusively. we all know that people run test pipes, hollowed cats, less cats, aftermarket turbos, etc, and there are shops that install & perform the mods. the detractors to this hobby are getting more prevalent, and the laws & enforcement against it are getting more aggressive. it's a catch 22 cuz forums are meant to help people w/common interests share info, but there are others that frequent them too. sometimes, it's best to err on the side of caution and be discreet.
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I totally agree. And I have some questions to consider...
I wasn't sure the legality of a shop knowingly installing a non-smog legal part (like a non-carb legal intake, header, HFC/TP; or "too loud" of an exhaust, etc).

Is it the shop's responsibility to know the legality of what they are installing, or the owner of the registered vehicle who bears the responsibility?
Is it the shop's responsibility to confirm the part is intended for a 'legally registered vehicle' vs. a track-prepped un-registered race car?
Is the shop at fault (and punishable by legal action) for installing a non smog-legal part?

Certainly a smog shop "fudging" a smog means they are responsible for their actions, but as far as not being a smog shop, and just an independent muffler shop or mechanic installing a part on a car, I question who bears legal responsibility.

For example, tint shops install "illegal" front window tint all day long in California, and my sense is that the enforcement of the broken law is a problem for the car-owner, not the shop who installed the tint. Wouldn't this same philosophy install for exhaust/emissions parts?

I've always kept my cars smog legal to avoid this sort of hassle.
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i don't think there's one blanket statement that can be made regarding whether all shops definitely assume responsibility for all parts they sell & install, CA/CARB/smog legal or otherwise. similarly, i don't think the same can be determined for each & every case, when it comes to putting the honus on buyers.

i know it sounds like a cop out, but i've been around the import/car modding hobby & industry for over half my life (don't do the math) lol i've had a significant amount of exposure to the law enforcement and law arenas too. i'm not directly involved in any of them. well, i am w/the latter, but in a nutshell, when shops & vendors (incl online), sell parts & install them, i am not sure if they are required to confirm w/the buyers that the products are for "off road use only." However, if you read the fine print on just about every Ebay auction, print or online ad, & on your electronic & hardcopy receipts, they do have those disclaimers.

it's opening another can of worms, but in this day & age of litigation happy individuals, people are getting sued &/or pointing the fingers at everyone else for all kinds of things. technically, a bar or anywhere that serves alcohol is not only responsible for carding/confirming patrons are of legal age, but they also can be held liable if they do not cut off obviously inebriated customers. i've heard cases of establishments being sued for letting wasted people leave their premises w/out at least attempting to ensure their well being by calling a cab for them or making sure they can get home safely.

i could comment a lot more about this, but i gotta clean up my place. my gf is coming home from an overseas trip this weekend, and i've bought a crapload of car parts lately. lol

TougeHorseman

This is an interesting discussion. Curious to hear more of your thoughts and the thoughts of others.

whiteflash

As far as doing work on cars...

If you drive your car up to the shop; it's a road driving vehicle. They "shouldn't" be putting non road-op parts on cars that are obviously operating on the roads. Ultimately, at least in CA, there is legal responsibility on the part of the business for knowing what you're installing. If you're a muffler shop, "Oh, I didn't know you couldn't put a straight test pipe on a road driven, registered car" doesn't really fly.

For obvious reasons, however, unless there's a BAR rat already at the shop, it's pretty hard for shops to have work traced back to them. Though, if enough people get caught with illegal parts, and there's enough data to draw a conclusion of negligence on behalf of a single shop, BAR will fine/prosecute, whatever. That takes a bit of data collecting though.