JonBoy

They've stopped producing the CR-Z. Sorry - you're out of "luck".

TheDonEffect

Dang, why did they stop making it?

ealand0001

150k? Good one.

rob-2

Will owners be forced to sign docs that prevent them from lending ten to car mags to test?

Pretty clear Honda has no desire to allow testing prior to show room. Has me wondering many things.

TommyDeVito

It isn't low hanging fruit to me. The original NSX was in the supercar leagues but didn't have the price tag to match. It was made to go up against the Ferrari V8 at a lower price point, and be reliable, reliable enough to be a solid DD. What's this new deal share with it, very little.
What is the GT350? An affordable supercar, at least to me. It revs past 8k, has a gem of a motor, maybe "the" motor of the last decade. It has the performance. I've quit reading Jan's dribble but I'm sure it's something about different purposes. Different purposes for what? For the most part, they'll both be driven on the street and be used as a toy, or a very fun DD. Both are up to the task. One is just 100k cheaper. And the cheaper one has a more desirable engine to me. Performance per dollar the GT350 is more like the original NSX than Honda's new version. So the engines are in different locations, so what? What is the point of electric motors on one axle, and making the vehicle needlessly complex? Making things complex for complex sake is an exercise in futility. Somehow Ford of all companies, is delivering more smiles per mile at a much better price point, and doing so, by the basics. NA Vee engine, manual gearbox. Even Randy Pobst said the thing is absolutely stellar, street or the track, only don't go driving the R if your aim is to get the regular 350.

If we are gonna talk inflation, what about the GTR? All we've heard on here is how big and heavy it is. How heavy is this new NSX again? 3700 lbs? The GTR is what 3800 lbs? The GT350 is 3700 lbs? Back to the GT350, power isn't much different than the new NSX.
Two different solutions for a vehicle but my do the weight and power stats sound similar. When you factor in the massive price difference, well.....

I'll be the first person to laugh if the new NSX cannot beat the current GTR around the track. You gonna spend the extra 75k, for a H badge and some electric motors? I'd like to see it against the GT350R while we're at it. Can't wait for the lap times. I think I'll have a pink lady apple now.

rob-2

Those apples rock and I get your logic.

TheDonEffect

Median lol.

TheDonEffect

I get you too Tommy, and I'm salivating over the gt350, but that's an under handed pitch to a honda crusader.

Anyway, what happened to the crz jonboy?

Elistan

MR layout typically produces lower polar moment of inertia than an FR layout, making for a more nimble vehicle. Also, MR layout typically has proportionally more weight over the rear axle than an FR layout, which is better for acceleration and braking due to weight transfer. The NSX is 42/58. I can't find that spec on Ford's website, but reportedly it's 54/46 for the GT350.

I assume you mean each front wheel getting it's own electric motor? If so, torque vectoring is the point, which is intended, as far as I can tell, to make the car handle better and be generally more well-behaved when accelerating and braking in a corner.

JonBoy

Yeah, except it's slow in a straight line. It's a large car. It looks pedestrian. It has a crummy interior. Etc, etc.

It's not a supercar or even close to it. It's a Mustang taken to the nth degree (nth-1, for the GT350...since the GT350R is even faster). It's awesome....but it ain't even close to supercar territory. The GT350 was slower than a C7 Z51 in a straight line AND around a track in a recent comparo (by 1.3s at Willow Springs). Supercar performance? If it can't beat a Vette, it ain't even close to supercar performance.

http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...omparison-test

0-60 in 4.3s and 12.5s in the quarter mile. These days, that's okay...but not amazing, especially for 526 hp out of a bespoke motor.

The NSX has been and always will be an everyday supercar. Now that we've established that the GT350 isn't even in supercar performance territory, that kind of all flies out the window. But the NSX has multiple modes for quietness, comfort, speed, handling, etc, etc, along with excellent sightlines.

The point of electric motors on the front axles is for torque vectoring. EVERYONE that's driven the car is amazed at how well it changes directions, thanks to those electric motors. Because they can act independently, they can apply torque positively (overspeed) while the other side drags (regenerative negative torque) to rotate the car dynamically.

The GT350 is an awesome car and I would gladly own and drive one! But that's not the point. The point is, it's still rough around the edges, it's still (relatively) slow, it's pretty bland on the inside, etc, etc. Is it a performance bargain? ABSOLUTELY (in the USA, at least - in Canada, a Z51 is the same price)! No one is arguing that the GT350 isn't a performance bargain. But who cares? Nothing at $150K is a performance bargain - none of them are THAT MUCH faster than cars at $100K (Viper, Z06, GT-R) to warrant the additional cash. But it's a strawman argument that ties performance to dollars, since performance gains are VERY expensive beyond a certain point. That's why a McLaren P1 is $1M and is only moderately quicker than a 911 Turbo S in 0-60, 1/4, etc. It's only on a track or a decent straight with lots of room to run that you'll see any benefit from the P1. Otherwise....911 Turbo S all day for $800K+ cheaper.

How is the weight distributed? What's the CG point (height, especially) for each car? Yeah, didn't think about that, did you?

The Mustang is physically large - it's tall, especially. The NSX has more torque (and WAY earlier in the rev range, thanks to those electric motors) and more power with similar weight, in a smaller, more compact package. It has about 50 hp and 50 ft-lb more but again, the power curve looks way different compared to a GT350. The GT350 has 60+ more hp than a Vette...but is slower. Why? It's not a drag car (at all) and it's set up for track use more than anything.

NSX? AWD = quick launches = quick acceleration, especially with the tightly-geared 9DCT doing the shifting. Electric motor torque down low + high-revving turbo V6 for top-end power = power when when you need it. Torque vectoring, variable steering ratios, performance modes for track driving, etc, etc, mean that it'll play anywhere you want.

It's an ALL AROUND supercar with the performance to match.

You and rob-2 can have a laugh together...if it happens. Otherwise, you can cry together while rob-2 writes that I was right and he was wrong.