Audi Robbed Blind?
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From: Orlando
Audi Robbed Blind?
http://jalopnik.com/cars/news/audi-robbed-...gain-258814.php
"What's a normally aspirated 4.2-liter direct-injected 420 horsepower V8 with an 8,250 rpm redline gotta do to get a little respect around here? For the ninth year in a row Engine Technology International Magazine has presented their International Engine of the Year Award. In 2005 BMW took down 6 wins, including the (possibly) coveted International Engine of the Year. In 2006, the Bavarians only managed to win 5 awards (Volkswagen's 1.4-liter twin charger jumped up and bit their ankles in the (maybe) hotly contested 1-liter to 1.4-liter category), but once again, the M5's 5-liter V10 took top honors. Again. This year? Once again BMW took down 6 of the 11 awards, but best engine honors did not go to their mighty V10. Instead, the twin-turbo straight-6 from the 335i took top honors. Remember, even though BMW says the thing only makes 300 horses, that mill actually kicks out 350 hp. Los Jalopers? We'd still rather have the 4.2 out of the RS4. Or the 5.0-liter V8 out of the E39 M5. Cause we're iconoclastic like that."
"What's a normally aspirated 4.2-liter direct-injected 420 horsepower V8 with an 8,250 rpm redline gotta do to get a little respect around here? For the ninth year in a row Engine Technology International Magazine has presented their International Engine of the Year Award. In 2005 BMW took down 6 wins, including the (possibly) coveted International Engine of the Year. In 2006, the Bavarians only managed to win 5 awards (Volkswagen's 1.4-liter twin charger jumped up and bit their ankles in the (maybe) hotly contested 1-liter to 1.4-liter category), but once again, the M5's 5-liter V10 took top honors. Again. This year? Once again BMW took down 6 of the 11 awards, but best engine honors did not go to their mighty V10. Instead, the twin-turbo straight-6 from the 335i took top honors. Remember, even though BMW says the thing only makes 300 horses, that mill actually kicks out 350 hp. Los Jalopers? We'd still rather have the 4.2 out of the RS4. Or the 5.0-liter V8 out of the E39 M5. Cause we're iconoclastic like that."
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From: Palo Alto
Very Euro centric (cars commonly available in Europe that is).
The displacement limits don't line up well with the US market. Also, for best performance engine I would at least think the LS7 deserved to be on the contenders list. Its power/lb ratio puts it right up there with the best. It might even have the highest hp/lb of any of the nominated engines. Again, I'm not saying it would win but to exclude it entirely really draws into question the quality or factors used in making the choices.
Finally, they don't mention cost as a factor. Certainly cost would bump not only the LS7 but many of the Japanese engines as well while knocking companies like Ferrari.
The displacement limits don't line up well with the US market. Also, for best performance engine I would at least think the LS7 deserved to be on the contenders list. Its power/lb ratio puts it right up there with the best. It might even have the highest hp/lb of any of the nominated engines. Again, I'm not saying it would win but to exclude it entirely really draws into question the quality or factors used in making the choices.
Finally, they don't mention cost as a factor. Certainly cost would bump not only the LS7 but many of the Japanese engines as well while knocking companies like Ferrari.
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I think the 335 powerplant is fresher and more innovative than the RS4 engine. The RS4 4.2 is just a tweaked version of the previous S4 engine. I can understand the win. They're just talking about engines and not the whole vehicle. The 335 engine could have huge impact in future "upgraded" iterations. It has the potential to revitalize the "base" models across their lineup... 535, X3/X5... especially if they allow more "overboost" in certain situations....
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From: Tampa, FL
Originally Posted by CKit,May 9 2007, 12:20 PM
I think the 335 powerplant is fresher and more innovative than the RS4 engine. The RS4 4.2 is just a tweaked version of the previous S4 engine. I can understand the win. They're just talking about engines and not the whole vehicle. The 335 engine could have huge impact in future "upgraded" iterations. It has the potential to revitalize the "base" models across their lineup... 535, X3/X5... especially if they allow more "overboost" in certain situations....
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Originally Posted by Iceman1,May 9 2007, 10:32 AM
the S4 did not have Direct Injection though... i actually think the RS4 is a very pioneering engine... 12.5:1 compression...
The 4.2FSI engine has
- direct injection
- breaks the "magical" 100hp/L mark without FI
- has better response that the FI'ed Bimmer motor due to it being an NA motor with relatively lightweight internals
- has the HIGHEST PISTON SPEED for a production engine, a record which the F20C held for 7 years.
THAT is engineering. The 3.0 twin turbo in the 335i is a good motor, but its nowhere near as good as the 4.2FSI in the RS4 and the vaunted R8. Heck, Audi puts the 4.2 in the R8, whereas the 3.0TT from Bimmer goes into 3 and 5 series sedans. Kinda obvious which motor is better.
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From: Phoenix
I have to agree that the BMW engine isn't that impressive and really doesn't deserve the design win over other engines out there, Audi or otherwise.
I don't know if anyone else noticed, but the Audi 4.2 FSI and BMW N54 don't even compete in the same size category, and the Audi unit apparently wasn't up for the Best Engine in the World category anyhow.
I can understand being upset at not winning anything if I'm an engineer at Audi. The 4.2 FSI has the makings of a real world heavyweight. I do have to say though that the only category it was competing in - the 4.0+ litre segment - had the almighty BMW V10 at the top. Great engine or not, I don't see any way anyone would choose the 4.2 FSI over the 5.0 V10. BMW's S85 has the same redline as the Audi engine, 80 more horsepower, quite a bit more torque, a compression ratio down on the Audi's by only .5:1, and achieves the same 100hp/litre watermark that Audi's engine does. It's got more cylinders, it's more exclusive, it was designed specifically for the M5, it's F1-based, it sounds great, and it kicks a lot of ass. And, it goes in a car that is larger but only marginally heavier than the Audi sedan (that is one size class smaller) sporting the 4.2 FSI. Add to this BMW's better gearbox, and the M5 and its engine outshine anything Audi can throw at them. The only downside to the M5 versus the RS4 and S6 is its cost.
Audi's own V10 in their S6 doesn't put up much of a fight technologically, at least not in the sport sedan segment that BMW created and still dominates. If Audi had left the Gallardo V10 alone instead of detuning it, they probably would've had a chance. But Audi can't do that and still get people to justify buying a Gallardo.
Basically it's a marketing and PR exercise after engineering factors have been considered, and BMW is much more aligned to grab the press than Audi, who has always played 3rd string among the high-dollar German makes. Not that I think Audis suck - they don't - but they've always kind of been a step behind. They're catching up, but they ain't there yet.
I don't know if anyone else noticed, but the Audi 4.2 FSI and BMW N54 don't even compete in the same size category, and the Audi unit apparently wasn't up for the Best Engine in the World category anyhow.
I can understand being upset at not winning anything if I'm an engineer at Audi. The 4.2 FSI has the makings of a real world heavyweight. I do have to say though that the only category it was competing in - the 4.0+ litre segment - had the almighty BMW V10 at the top. Great engine or not, I don't see any way anyone would choose the 4.2 FSI over the 5.0 V10. BMW's S85 has the same redline as the Audi engine, 80 more horsepower, quite a bit more torque, a compression ratio down on the Audi's by only .5:1, and achieves the same 100hp/litre watermark that Audi's engine does. It's got more cylinders, it's more exclusive, it was designed specifically for the M5, it's F1-based, it sounds great, and it kicks a lot of ass. And, it goes in a car that is larger but only marginally heavier than the Audi sedan (that is one size class smaller) sporting the 4.2 FSI. Add to this BMW's better gearbox, and the M5 and its engine outshine anything Audi can throw at them. The only downside to the M5 versus the RS4 and S6 is its cost.
Audi's own V10 in their S6 doesn't put up much of a fight technologically, at least not in the sport sedan segment that BMW created and still dominates. If Audi had left the Gallardo V10 alone instead of detuning it, they probably would've had a chance. But Audi can't do that and still get people to justify buying a Gallardo.
Basically it's a marketing and PR exercise after engineering factors have been considered, and BMW is much more aligned to grab the press than Audi, who has always played 3rd string among the high-dollar German makes. Not that I think Audis suck - they don't - but they've always kind of been a step behind. They're catching up, but they ain't there yet.