Base 370z or E46 M3?
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Originally Posted by SlowTeg,Dec 22 2010, 12:48 PM
Well said.
For most who are on these forums, you're likely handy in some respect or will at least search out competitive prices for maintenance, and won't get screwed over badly by just bringing the car to the dealer. However, the "oh shyt" costs will always be there. In the case something very bad happens, it'll be considerably more expensive on the M3.
Personally, I find the Japanese vs. European reliability debate to be a little overblown, at least before the Euros started using electronic everything (new Benzes (not sure about bimmers) don't have an engine oil dipstick, but you must rely on the oil level sensor), and of course the sensors go bad. Sadly, I think some of the newer model Euro cars ('06+) are a bit like Rube Goldberg machines. They overcomplicate things for no good reason imo, and just make things more expensive, which led me to personally shy away from a newer 3 series.
However, assuming nothing major goes wrong, European cars are very reliable (and not too expensive maintenance wise). I know plenty of people w/ bmws and mercedes and they really aren't THAT expensive to do maintenance on, especially if you do it yourself. The nice thing about European cars is that generally the drivetrains are very stout, it's just all the little annoying things that go wrong. However, doing regular maintenance like fluid changes, filter changes, etc. aren't really that much more expensive, especially for the DIYer.
For most who are on these forums, you're likely handy in some respect or will at least search out competitive prices for maintenance, and won't get screwed over badly by just bringing the car to the dealer. However, the "oh shyt" costs will always be there. In the case something very bad happens, it'll be considerably more expensive on the M3.
Personally, I find the Japanese vs. European reliability debate to be a little overblown, at least before the Euros started using electronic everything (new Benzes (not sure about bimmers) don't have an engine oil dipstick, but you must rely on the oil level sensor), and of course the sensors go bad. Sadly, I think some of the newer model Euro cars ('06+) are a bit like Rube Goldberg machines. They overcomplicate things for no good reason imo, and just make things more expensive, which led me to personally shy away from a newer 3 series.
However, assuming nothing major goes wrong, European cars are very reliable (and not too expensive maintenance wise). I know plenty of people w/ bmws and mercedes and they really aren't THAT expensive to do maintenance on, especially if you do it yourself. The nice thing about European cars is that generally the drivetrains are very stout, it's just all the little annoying things that go wrong. However, doing regular maintenance like fluid changes, filter changes, etc. aren't really that much more expensive, especially for the DIYer.
its not the drivetrain its the electronics for me. Especially when you have a sensor for everything in the car. Active damper sensor, rain sensing wiper sensor, right butt cheek warmth sensor. My best mate had his 3 series in the shop constantly for a fault w/ his idrive/nav screen. The terrible thing was if the screen didn't work, everything was f'd. We were driving back from the club and the screen went out with no backup manual push-button controls. No radio no nothin. I look for cars w/o all these electronic doo-dads. My garmin is awesome and I don't need auto this n that, I'm very capable of doing it myself.
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From: Scottsdale
Originally Posted by sparrow,Dec 22 2010, 09:24 AM
its not the drivetrain its the electronics for me. Especially when you have a sensor for everything in the car. Active damper sensor, rain sensing wiper sensor, right butt cheek warmth sensor. My best mate had his 3 series in the shop constantly for a fault w/ his idrive/nav screen. The terrible thing was if the screen didn't work, everything was f'd. We were driving back from the club and the screen went out with no backup manual push-button controls. No radio no nothin. I look for cars w/o all these electronic doo-dads. My garmin is awesome and I don't need auto this n that, I'm very capable of doing it myself.
All of the clips, fasteners, hoses, plastic trim parts on the car began rotting to dust within 2-3 years of buying the car. Everytime you have to remove one, it busts and has to be replaced. This became a big issue because the car had systemic electrical problems and was taken apart a half dozen times (they never did fix it, BMW denied the warranty claim and my uncle never pursued lemon law, although he should have...they wound up cutting wires to keep the dash lights off).
Anyways, little plastic parts aren't the end of the world...but dude. Make a car designed to live in high UV and dry environments- is that too much to ask for? The car was garaged and completely pampered (I guess they could have stored it in a really big humidor???)
I don't think his maintenance cost has been excessive since he does the work himself on everything, but there have been a handful of repairs where the parts are just outrageous. Even if you perform the labor yourself, the parts on a BMW are still going to be crazy expensive.
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Originally Posted by sparrow,Dec 22 2010, 12:24 PM
I look for cars w/o all these electronic doo-dads. My garmin is awesome and I don't need auto this n that, I'm very capable of doing it myself.
The move to run flat tires only on the newer bmw's drives me nuts, but the elimination of the spare tire well in the trunk will prevent me from buying one.
The removal of the engine oil dipstick is another critical must have as far as I'm concerned, and any car w/o one I won't buy.
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Of the two, I'd take the 370Z. I've daily driven a 350Z for a few months, and I enjoyed the car so I'm sure the Z would be just as great.
I haven't ever driven a 3-series Bimmer, let alone the E46 M3, so I'm just going off of opinion, which is exactly what this thread is supposed to be about.
To be honest, if I were looking for a $30k car, I'd be looking at the Lotus Elise.
I haven't ever driven a 3-series Bimmer, let alone the E46 M3, so I'm just going off of opinion, which is exactly what this thread is supposed to be about.
To be honest, if I were looking for a $30k car, I'd be looking at the Lotus Elise.
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Originally Posted by UmarS2K,Dec 22 2010, 02:51 PM
Of the two, I'd take the 370Z. I've daily driven a 350Z for a few months, and I enjoyed the car so I'm sure the Z would be just as great.
I haven't ever driven a 3-series Bimmer, let alone the E46 M3, so I'm just going off of opinion, which is exactly what this thread is supposed to be about.
To be honest, if I were looking for a $30k car, I'd be looking at the Lotus Elise.
I haven't ever driven a 3-series Bimmer, let alone the E46 M3, so I'm just going off of opinion, which is exactly what this thread is supposed to be about.
To be honest, if I were looking for a $30k car, I'd be looking at the Lotus Elise.
