Behold the 2022 BRZ. Finally on target?
11-18-2020, 11:53 AM
#21
From CNET:
The new BRZ isn't much bigger than the outgoing model, either -- it's about an inch longer and half an inch shorter in height. Compared to the 2020 BRZ, the new coupe is only 17 pounds heavier, coming in at a svelte 2,815 pounds for a Premium with the manual transmission and topping out at 2,881 pounds for the high-end Limited with an automatic.
The new BRZ isn't much bigger than the outgoing model, either -- it's about an inch longer and half an inch shorter in height. Compared to the 2020 BRZ, the new coupe is only 17 pounds heavier, coming in at a svelte 2,815 pounds for a Premium with the manual transmission and topping out at 2,881 pounds for the high-end Limited with an automatic.
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JonBoy (11-19-2020)
11-18-2020, 12:17 PM
#23
I'm glad we have options.
I don't want a JDM version of Mustang, Camaro, Challenger.... Or conversely, a JDM version of a BMW M2 - we already have the Supra.
There are plenty of options to fill the big power market and your requirements.
Aside from the BRZ/FT-86 and ND2, there are no sports cars that are sub 3000 lbs. starting at less than $30K. I care about consumables and don't want to pay for 18-19-20" tires and brake pads for a fat 3700+ lbs. pig - or even up to 4200+ lbs. No thanks.
My s2k has a running cost of ~$500 per track day (fees, gas, tires, brake pads, fluids). At 10 days a year, that's $5000.
I go through two sets of tires at about $860 per set for 255r17 (NT-01 or A052).
Conversely, a set of 315r18 cost about $1570.
And, given a fat car with big horsepower, I'd expect to need 3 sets of tires.
S2K tire cost = ~$1700/year (expect the same rate of wear for FT86 and ND2)
Big HP heavy car tire cost = $4700/year
difference = $3000
just for tires....
I like driving my cars rather than just talking about numbers on paper.
I don't want a JDM version of Mustang, Camaro, Challenger.... Or conversely, a JDM version of a BMW M2 - we already have the Supra.
There are plenty of options to fill the big power market and your requirements.
Aside from the BRZ/FT-86 and ND2, there are no sports cars that are sub 3000 lbs. starting at less than $30K. I care about consumables and don't want to pay for 18-19-20" tires and brake pads for a fat 3700+ lbs. pig - or even up to 4200+ lbs. No thanks.
My s2k has a running cost of ~$500 per track day (fees, gas, tires, brake pads, fluids). At 10 days a year, that's $5000.
I go through two sets of tires at about $860 per set for 255r17 (NT-01 or A052).
Conversely, a set of 315r18 cost about $1570.
And, given a fat car with big horsepower, I'd expect to need 3 sets of tires.
S2K tire cost = ~$1700/year (expect the same rate of wear for FT86 and ND2)
Big HP heavy car tire cost = $4700/year
difference = $3000
just for tires....
I like driving my cars rather than just talking about numbers on paper.
Regarding the HP, my point is that some 20 years later they're just going to finally catch up to the S2k and the RX8....
11-18-2020, 12:20 PM
#24
80lb or so weight increase, but almost 30hp more, and a broader torque, I think it's going to feel noticeably faster. Of course you have to be mindful of the context here, to a Hellcat owner (looking at you Rob, lol), this is absolutely insignificant, but for me the car didn't necessarily lack speed, it just lacked satisfying feedback from the engine, and it looks like they remedied it. They could've just tuned the car much like the aftermarket did to reduce the issue to a satisfactory way, but instead stuck in the bigger motor and doubled down on getting rid of it while actually making that part of the power band shine. So where a bandaid could've happened, they did surgery, so gotta give credit where credit is due.
While this will never attract the Hellcat crowd, I do wonder what s2k folks are going to say...
Anyway, now we gotta wait until January before Toyota debuts their version. Frankly, I already like the Subaru version alot.
While this will never attract the Hellcat crowd, I do wonder what s2k folks are going to say...
Anyway, now we gotta wait until January before Toyota debuts their version. Frankly, I already like the Subaru version alot.
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TheDonEffect (11-18-2020)
11-18-2020, 12:24 PM
#25
I mean, it's 95% the same car with some minor styling detail changes, more horsepower at same 7000rpm, more torque everywhere, no torque dip, and slightly higher redline. Same size with barely any weight gain thank God. I'm pretty psyched to try it out
11-18-2020, 12:35 PM
#26
11-18-2020, 01:10 PM
#27
I was pretty young, but I remember the days of STI's and EVO's crushing domestics. Fast forward many years and people are getting a chub over 230hp.
Agreed. Glad we have options! Seems like the domestic train is the one to be on for me. Or settle for a car that gets passed by a minivan filled with a family of 6 while you're flooring it and they're 1/4 throttle.
Can I be the first to say I'm disappointed? I'd much rather have a C6 Z06. Not far from sub 3k lbs and it running on 4 cylinders is still more than 230hp...
Agreed. Glad we have options! Seems like the domestic train is the one to be on for me. Or settle for a car that gets passed by a minivan filled with a family of 6 while you're flooring it and they're 1/4 throttle.
Can I be the first to say I'm disappointed? I'd much rather have a C6 Z06. Not far from sub 3k lbs and it running on 4 cylinders is still more than 230hp...
They now have well over 400hp stock, and are no longer just fast in a straight line (GT PP2, SS 1LE, GT350, Mach1, Boss 302, you get the idea).
Btw, if people want a rwd coupe with an I4 turbo and stick, they already got that, two in fact, called the Mustang and Camaro, and they sell really well.
Making the BRZ with a 300+hp engine, would pull it away from the car that it is and push it towards those cars. As objectively as good as those cars are, I want the smaller 86. It's either that or the price goes up, dramatically. Consider this, more power will need better tires which grip better, which means more leaning, diving, etc, which will necessitate more suspension, which means more bracing, at some point cooling becomes an issue, then there's safety considerations, it's a very slippery slope. One of two but likely both will go up, cost or weight.
11-18-2020, 01:14 PM
#28
Hood is same height as current model, it looks like to me:
I mean, it's 95% the same car with some minor styling detail changes, more horsepower at same 7000rpm, more torque everywhere, no torque dip, and slightly higher redline. Same size with barely any weight gain thank God. I'm pretty psyched to try it out
I mean, it's 95% the same car with some minor styling detail changes, more horsepower at same 7000rpm, more torque everywhere, no torque dip, and slightly higher redline. Same size with barely any weight gain thank God. I'm pretty psyched to try it out
I see what he means though, the character line that runs below the beltline into the hood/fender makes the car look more taut and less bloaty. Where the hood meets the firewall looks higher as well. The door now has nothing that really connects it to the front and back.
God I hated those fake vents on the originals.
11-18-2020, 01:17 PM
#29
Ok. My Cayman is tuned, and if it made as much as my tuned version per liter it would be at 210 ftlbs. Maybe there will be tunes that can squeeze a little out. I realize I expect a lot, but in the days of routine forced induction cars, 184 in torque just leaves a little to be desired.
11-18-2020, 01:21 PM
#30
Maybe the looks will grow on me, but I'm not digging the whole design much. On the front, the hood is too high (room for intercooler in future? lol jk). And worst of all, to me, is the back. It's rounded, and pinched off, removing any notion of power. And it looks like a Buick Regal.
.
.
I had the same thoughts on the high looking hood and the back end is ruined. It must just be some design feature that makes it look higher but the original model, the hood looked like it just sunk inside of the fenders which was really cool to my eyes, the new one does not give that same impression.
The back end is unappealing when the original nailed it. I do like the rear fender flares though. But the profile has a Scion TC look to it a bit.