A friend of mine might be selling his truck. It is a Toyota Xrunner with all the bolt ons you could think of. He is seriously considering a Mazdaspeed3 but I would like the opinions of you guys. His budgets is around $17,000.00

My opinion:

He lives in a state where it rains, and snows a lot. Between May and July all it did was rain. FWD is just not practical considering how much it precipitates but I fail to even see the comparison between the three cars... The MS3 has had a solid amount of cars with transmission problems, and grenading. The stock turbo/engine is pretty much maxed from the factory and the stock internals aren't so hot. The TMIC IMO is just plain stupid, why? an enclosed hood with a TMIC... hmm. Here are the performance specs of the 3 cars

EVO VIII:

0-60 MPH: 4.8
1/4 mi: 13.1
60-0 Braking: 109 ft
Skid Pad: 0.97g
Slalom: 71.7 mph

STi:

0-60 MPH: 4.7
1/4 mi: 13.1
60-0 Braking: 114 ft
Skid Pad: 0.92g
Slalom: 69.8 mph

MS3:

0-60 MPH: 5.8
1/4 mi: 14.4
60-0 Braking: 116 ft
Skid Pad: 0.87g (same as a stock 2005 SRT-4)
Slalom: 67.0 mph

-He is under the impression that the EVO and STi are very expensive to maintain, he mentioned "the clutch and the labor that goes in it and how expensive it is"

-He said finding an EVO for $17,000 or so with lower mileage was RARE and then I found 4 solid examples with under 50,000 miles

-He refuses to test drive the EVO and STi. He has yet to ever even drive one of the two, but he has driven the MS3

-He insists that the 2008+ MS3 won't have transmission or engine problems, but Mazda has proven time and time again to either ignore, or NOT be able to fix the woes of cars previous production years.

I personally think he is batty for even considering the Mazdaspeed3, the only reason to justify it IMO over an EVO or STi is that it would be newer, for a similar price. But newer to me doesn't mean much to me in regards to what car is best... it just means, well... newer. The performance advantage the EVO and STi have over the MS3 are so significant I don't even think the MS3 should be in the equation. Things would be different if EVO's and STi's where still $30,000 but they are dirt cheap now and he doesn't want to buy brand new. What do you all think?

 

If he doesn't want to buy any of those brand new he is going to be in trouble they aren't Honda's they don't last very long like our engine's, and maintenance is a lot

Tell him to buy a accord and call it a day

 

while I agree the sti and evo are better cars performance wise(come on awd is a no brainer), You should find newer MS3's for less money. Your gonna have to go back quite a few years to get the sti under 18 for sure. Evos are known to have crappy transmissions aren't they? (someone else told me this so I dont know)

either way, you seemed very baised and not very knowledgable about the mazda. I come from the mazda3 forums and would speak very positive things about the mazda 3's reliability. I know several people with them, with several bolt ons. They see decent power gains (though nothing like the evo) and none have had any serious enginer/trans issues.

Not to mention you COMPLETLY failed to mention the one huge positive of the mazdaspeed 3. IT'S A HATCH!!! Its got a ton of room. FWD is amazing in the rain and it's won numerous magazine comparos

 

ms3 is the most comfortable car of the three, with STi 2nd and Evo 8/9 dead last.

interior and amenities also follow that order.

that said, fwd with an engine like the one the MS3 has (tons of torque) is bad news on the streets. with any bolt-ons he'll be spinning 1st and 2nd. say he's trying to beat some pick-up truck at the light to the merging lane (like i've tried in my friend's MS3), he will light up 2nd gear even after short-shifting 1st (like i've tried in the MS3). throw in any turns and it gets worse.

Evo rides like a tank but as everybody knows will make power like it's free (well compared to anything this side of a 03-04 cobra), up to around 330whp anyways. after that high octane fuel/water/meth injection will help to reach the peak of the stock turbo, which is right under 400whp. it's true most ppl bring the Evo to hell and back and abuse the clutch and tranny. look for grinds, transfer case noises, and clutch slippage during test drive. best is to bring a very knowledgeable local Evo guru to check out the potential car. if the Evo checks out fine (like the 4 Evos my friends have acquired recently, 2 VIIIs and 2 IXs), other than motor oil/tranny fluid/brake pads/tires the maintenance is pretty ordinary.

STis will top out around 300whp on typical dynojets no matter what fuel you use. the turbo just ain't big enough to flow more air. given the biggest displacement of the group and a small-ish turbo, peak torque and mid-range torque is awesome, but top end, not so much. boxer rumble is awesome, but so is the stock exhaust note from the MS3.

absolute performance = Evo

compromise btwn performance and comfort = STi

don't care about FWD torque steer but like nice interior/ride comfort = MS3

IMHO

 

I have an 08.5 MS3 which I've owned for over a year as my commuter. It now has 22k miles. Zero issues. Not sure where these stories come from where MS3 engines and tranny supposedly fail but never read any on my Mazda forum. If there were these issues, very likely these cars were abused and modded heavily. Fyi MS3 engine won Ward top ten engines 3 years in a row. For $21k, I haven't found anything negative about my car yet. Btw TMIC gets air fed through integrated scoops within front grill.

 

I've priced all the services for my STi and it's more than say an Accord, but not heaps more. That is blown way out of proportion. I mean I was just at the dealer looking at their service prices and I haven't even checked the Subie aftermarket places around here, which there are a few. I'll probably just go there and spend heaps less when I need service, which won't be for another year and 4 months. Subies, you get 2 years free maintenance, but that is only on new vehicles.

$17k? I, for one, wouldn't buy a turbo performance car used unless I knew the owner personally or it was some old man that babied it, and even then I'd want service records, etc.

Can't speak for Mitsus or Mazdas, but I know the Subies are very reliable. Regular oil changes and service and I'll get as many miles out of my motor as I would a Honda engine. That's more hype that someone is trying to spew.

AWD in inclement weather pwns FWD or RWD. I drove down to Austin a few weeks ago and a torrential downpour started on my trip. It had just started raining so the tarmac was as slick as it gets, reminded me of black ice. The car was moving around a bit and I could feel torque being transferred from the wheels that were slipping to the wheels that were gripping. It was definitely a butthole pucker moment as I have on summer high performance tires. Anyway, it moved around on me a little bit but in a RWD or FWD car, I would have had to just pull over like many did that night. It was hardcore rain. If your friend is going to drive in snow, hard rains, etc, convince him to get AWD no matter what he chooses. With the appropriate tires mounted, no sweat.

 

evo IX,VIII, etc service is cheap as shit where i live. my clutch is fine after 10 track days and 25k miles. it all depends on your situation. overall it's a more expensive car to maintain then an S2000, but most people drive it on the street all the time it should be fine.

Buying a used EVO or STI, especially if it's modded is always a crap shoot.

 

Actually the 5-speed transmissions in the Evo's are pretty rock solid. The 6-speeds in the MR's are know to be weaker than the 5 but aren't just going to fall apart. Like most performance cars, it's all about how you drive it. If your going to launch it and don't know how to do it properly, I don't care what car your driving, the tranny is going to take a beating.

 

You mentioned this in another thread before and I said, as I'll say now, that it's most likely only your dealership. My dealership, and those of many of my other friends across the state and other states that bought new Subarus, do not have this offer.

 

I'm sorry to say this, but you have a typical kid view of cars. Just saying that newer isn't better is, well, dumb. Newer means there is a warranty, fewer issues, will have more value down the road should your friend try to sell, etc.

You don't seem particularly well informed about the MS3 and also seem very biased towards the STi/EVO.

You list performance specs, but what about gas mileage, comfort, standard features, safety ratings, WARRANTY, etc? There is more to a car than performance (especially if it's your only car).

I know you think your friend is making a bad choice, but I don't think you are giving him good advice in suggesting he buy a much older car that is notorious for having owners that modify/abuse their cars.

I would NEVER buy an older EVO or STi...in fact, I'd have trouble buying one of them used period. I'd need to find an older MATURE owner who doesn't think that 0-60 times are the only reason to buy a car.

Sorry to rant a bit, but I think you need to grow up a little before advising someone on what car to buy.