GT3, GT4, NSX or Audi R8
02-19-2020, 01:13 PM
#21
I have both too, but I will always go PDK in the P-cars. It is that good and the cable actuated shifter in the Porsche manual cars isn't all that great, at least it wasn't in my GT4. On the track it was great, but it was slightly notchy around town. I think I've written diatribes about it before. Same shift action, same speed, same rpm, same everything, some shifts it would slide into the next gear smooth as butter, other times, it would have the slightest bit more resistance. It was very, very subtle, but it was annoying as heck when I started noticing it. Then, that was all I fixated on when driving around town. On track, banging off redline upshifts and rev matched downshifts, it was smooth as butter and sublime. It was weird.
The linkage shifters/transmissions in the Vettes aren't as precise or as precision feeling, but they are good and shift the same every single time, short shift, fast shift at redline, etc., same shift action. So, I love the TR6060 six-speed in my ZR1. And I love the PDK in the GT3. It's rifle fast in auto mode and then if I need a bit more engagement, I play with the paddles or push the shifter forward for downshift or pull back for upshift. It's pretty fun and response time/sounds make it quite enjoyable. Plus, no possible money shifts by me, valets, or car dealers, etc. That is a big plus in my book as I've read the 4.0 flat six in the GT3 isn't exactly cheap if I blew it up with a mechanical overrev.
I have heard the six-speed in the new GT3's is pretty darn good though, so maybe they fixed some of that weirdness, but I still ordered the PDK when I could have ordered the manual when I spec'd my GT3.
The linkage shifters/transmissions in the Vettes aren't as precise or as precision feeling, but they are good and shift the same every single time, short shift, fast shift at redline, etc., same shift action. So, I love the TR6060 six-speed in my ZR1. And I love the PDK in the GT3. It's rifle fast in auto mode and then if I need a bit more engagement, I play with the paddles or push the shifter forward for downshift or pull back for upshift. It's pretty fun and response time/sounds make it quite enjoyable. Plus, no possible money shifts by me, valets, or car dealers, etc. That is a big plus in my book as I've read the 4.0 flat six in the GT3 isn't exactly cheap if I blew it up with a mechanical overrev.
I have heard the six-speed in the new GT3's is pretty darn good though, so maybe they fixed some of that weirdness, but I still ordered the PDK when I could have ordered the manual when I spec'd my GT3.
02-19-2020, 01:19 PM
#22
I hear ya. I know what many fast cars are capable of, on track. PDK is going to be the preferred transmission. G damn things are so fast now unless you are a pro, instead of weekend buster, you should really be going with the PDK so you aren't concerning yourself with taking a hand off the wheel. Once you're up in the 500's or 600's in HP, I could make that case all day long. But some of us, well for me I don't give a flying fuk what it is, I want the manual. DD, truck, I don't care, but if it's my performance car no manual means no sale. Track time, for me, isn't even 10%, probably closer to 1% of the miles that will be racked up. Well at least until my twisties get mauled up by invading Kalifornians building their McMansions. I've driven plenty of dual clutch transmissions, friend has an AWD Turbo 911. When I got out of it I was still like "man if this thing had a manual" and it was right after he had Growler (formely Cobb) tune the damn thing. Same thing when I drove the MP4.
And there's nothing wrong with that!
02-19-2020, 01:40 PM
#23
Well my sportbikes are void of traction control, lean control, anti-spin, anti-wheelie, and the rest of the electronic nannies or rider aids on all the new bikes. I just realized I'm not racing for dollars so a measured lap time means zero to me. What matters to me is driver/rider engagement. One of my bikes had a DCT option, rode it, and bought the manual, and the manual cost more!
02-19-2020, 04:19 PM
#24
Thread Starter
I do like the NSX but probably GT3 is best choice for me and it's on my bucket list (RS that is). I can always take my daily for the long trips. Showed pictures of all the cars to my female friends/coworkers, they all liked each car. But when they saw the GT3, they all said GT3 out of all the choices no question. It was actually a pic of the GT3RS. Can't squeeze out that much for the car unless I... hmm
02-19-2020, 08:57 PM
#25
I have both too, but I will always go PDK in the P-cars. It is that good and the cable actuated shifter in the Porsche manual cars isn't all that great, at least it wasn't in my GT4. On the track it was great, but it was slightly notchy around town. I think I've written diatribes about it before. Same shift action, same speed, same rpm, same everything, some shifts it would slide into the next gear smooth as butter, other times, it would have the slightest bit more resistance. It was very, very subtle, but it was annoying as heck when I started noticing it. Then, that was all I fixated on when driving around town. On track, banging off redline upshifts and rev matched downshifts, it was smooth as butter and sublime. It was weird.
The linkage shifters/transmissions in the Vettes aren't as precise or as precision feeling, but they are good and shift the same every single time, short shift, fast shift at redline, etc., same shift action. So, I love the TR6060 six-speed in my ZR1. And I love the PDK in the GT3. It's rifle fast in auto mode and then if I need a bit more engagement, I play with the paddles or push the shifter forward for downshift or pull back for upshift. It's pretty fun and response time/sounds make it quite enjoyable. Plus, no possible money shifts by me, valets, or car dealers, etc. That is a big plus in my book as I've read the 4.0 flat six in the GT3 isn't exactly cheap if I blew it up with a mechanical overrev. I have heard the six-speed in the new GT3's is pretty darn good though, so maybe they fixed some of that weirdness, but I still ordered the PDK when I could have ordered the manual when I spec'd my GT3.
The linkage shifters/transmissions in the Vettes aren't as precise or as precision feeling, but they are good and shift the same every single time, short shift, fast shift at redline, etc., same shift action. So, I love the TR6060 six-speed in my ZR1. And I love the PDK in the GT3. It's rifle fast in auto mode and then if I need a bit more engagement, I play with the paddles or push the shifter forward for downshift or pull back for upshift. It's pretty fun and response time/sounds make it quite enjoyable. Plus, no possible money shifts by me, valets, or car dealers, etc. That is a big plus in my book as I've read the 4.0 flat six in the GT3 isn't exactly cheap if I blew it up with a mechanical overrev.
I have heard the six-speed in the new GT3's is pretty darn good though, so maybe they fixed some of that weirdness, but I still ordered the PDK when I could have ordered the manual when I spec'd my GT3.
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02-19-2020, 09:09 PM
#26
I'm slowly coming around regarding wanting dual clutch/pdk/etc. At the track, for the amount of seat time I'll ever get, the added complication of a manual just makes it more rigorous and less fun. And for a street car, my environment always has the possibility of traffic, whether its rush hour or 5am saturday, theres always the possibility. Then theres hills, steep driveways, having to park on hills in tight spots, etc, that while I can make it work as I have DDed manual cars for a good portion of my life, some of which with an s2000 no less, its flat out a joy killer.
The idea of just popping it into auto and cruising gets more appealing to me by the day, and then having a sweet, quick shifting manual mode where I can take my limited skill set and drive around mountain roads and just have fun, I dunno this gets more appealing by the day.
Additionally, with all the modern nannies, chassis, weight, etc etc, the manual is just feeling more and more out of place. I'd never ask for the best PDK in an NA miata for instance, not even as a no cost option, it just makes sense to have a manual. But in a vette? Hmm.
I dunno, there are enthusiasts that say you should be able to replace your engine, know how to tune your own car, heck why do we need starters? I think the fun of having a manual is the ability to choose the gears, and not the task of operating a clutch pedal.
But if you take a car that wouldn't have been fun anyway like a 100hp hatchback, then the manual seems to fit better.
The idea of just popping it into auto and cruising gets more appealing to me by the day, and then having a sweet, quick shifting manual mode where I can take my limited skill set and drive around mountain roads and just have fun, I dunno this gets more appealing by the day.
Additionally, with all the modern nannies, chassis, weight, etc etc, the manual is just feeling more and more out of place. I'd never ask for the best PDK in an NA miata for instance, not even as a no cost option, it just makes sense to have a manual. But in a vette? Hmm.
I dunno, there are enthusiasts that say you should be able to replace your engine, know how to tune your own car, heck why do we need starters? I think the fun of having a manual is the ability to choose the gears, and not the task of operating a clutch pedal.
But if you take a car that wouldn't have been fun anyway like a 100hp hatchback, then the manual seems to fit better.
02-20-2020, 04:36 AM
#27
I'm slowly coming around regarding wanting dual clutch/pdk/etc. At the track, for the amount of seat time I'll ever get, the added complication of a manual just makes it more rigorous and less fun. And for a street car, my environment always has the possibility of traffic, whether its rush hour or 5am saturday, theres always the possibility. Then theres hills, steep driveways, having to park on hills in tight spots, etc, that while I can make it work as I have DDed manual cars for a good portion of my life, some of which with an s2000 no less, its flat out a joy killer.
The idea of just popping it into auto and cruising gets more appealing to me by the day, and then having a sweet, quick shifting manual mode where I can take my limited skill set and drive around mountain roads and just have fun, I dunno this gets more appealing by the day.
Additionally, with all the modern nannies, chassis, weight, etc etc, the manual is just feeling more and more out of place. I'd never ask for the best PDK in an NA miata for instance, not even as a no cost option, it just makes sense to have a manual. But in a vette? Hmm.
I dunno, there are enthusiasts that say you should be able to replace your engine, know how to tune your own car, heck why do we need starters? I think the fun of having a manual is the ability to choose the gears, and not the task of operating a clutch pedal.
But if you take a car that wouldn't have been fun anyway like a 100hp hatchback, then the manual seems to fit better.
The idea of just popping it into auto and cruising gets more appealing to me by the day, and then having a sweet, quick shifting manual mode where I can take my limited skill set and drive around mountain roads and just have fun, I dunno this gets more appealing by the day.
Additionally, with all the modern nannies, chassis, weight, etc etc, the manual is just feeling more and more out of place. I'd never ask for the best PDK in an NA miata for instance, not even as a no cost option, it just makes sense to have a manual. But in a vette? Hmm.
I dunno, there are enthusiasts that say you should be able to replace your engine, know how to tune your own car, heck why do we need starters? I think the fun of having a manual is the ability to choose the gears, and not the task of operating a clutch pedal.
But if you take a car that wouldn't have been fun anyway like a 100hp hatchback, then the manual seems to fit better.
whatever makes you happy. All my cars are stick and will be till I stop driving. I might be getting old but I’m not dead yet...
02-20-2020, 05:50 AM
#28
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Waterford, MI - America's High Five
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you can rationalize it anyway you want, a manual is more engaging and requires a higher level of skill. I read posts like this and think it’s sad.
whatever makes you happy. All my cars are stick and will be till I stop driving. I might be getting old but I’m not dead yet...
whatever makes you happy. All my cars are stick and will be till I stop driving. I might be getting old but I’m not dead yet...
02-20-2020, 11:50 AM
#29
If i want fun, engaging, and rewarding - I go with 3 pedals and a stick. The key is rewarding - just because something is harder, doesn't make it better. It depends on how your brain is wired and whether or not you get enjoyment out of really putting effort into accomplishing something (whether for work or play). Some people don't want to "work" for their enjoyment, because then they're working (and that's not fun), and that's totally legit. People play video games and pick "easy" rather than "nightmare" mode because they just want a good time, not a frustrating one.
Other people feel a sense of reward and accomplishment in doing things the hard way. There's a reason why "vintage" racing is still a thing and people aren't just racing only modern cars even given equivalent operating costs and car values...
All of that said, if i'm competing and want to win, then I pick the flappy paddles - especially if there's more on the line than just my pride and ego. (i'm not skilled enough to have any of that on the line - my pride and ego included - it's why I like driving an s2k - I always have an excuse for being slow on track).
I know PDK is faster, but is there a laptime comparison test for the PDK GT3 versus 6-speed? I'd like to know what that's actually worth in the hands of decently skilled driver
Other people feel a sense of reward and accomplishment in doing things the hard way. There's a reason why "vintage" racing is still a thing and people aren't just racing only modern cars even given equivalent operating costs and car values...
All of that said, if i'm competing and want to win, then I pick the flappy paddles - especially if there's more on the line than just my pride and ego. (i'm not skilled enough to have any of that on the line - my pride and ego included - it's why I like driving an s2k - I always have an excuse for being slow on track).
I know PDK is faster, but is there a laptime comparison test for the PDK GT3 versus 6-speed? I'd like to know what that's actually worth in the hands of decently skilled driver
02-20-2020, 12:08 PM
#30
What does 2 seconds really matter if I’m not doing it for a living?
how about driving a coworker who thinks you must have rev match cause your down shifts are so smooth.
how about entering a corner hot, hitting the perfect down shift while trail braking into a tight apex and coming out of the corner struggling to find grip but dancing on the gas to make it so.
that is so much better then pushing a button for a computer controlled down shift while pressing on the slow down pedal hard and letting the car sort itself out. Then flooring it through the apex while the computer controls grip.
you either are an active driver or you’re ok with getting numb. PDK is an automatic in my book and belongs with the likes of video games. GTR is known to be faster with computer on and is also acclaimed to be video game like. Seems odd people want steering feel but computer controlled shifting.
how about driving a coworker who thinks you must have rev match cause your down shifts are so smooth.
how about entering a corner hot, hitting the perfect down shift while trail braking into a tight apex and coming out of the corner struggling to find grip but dancing on the gas to make it so.
that is so much better then pushing a button for a computer controlled down shift while pressing on the slow down pedal hard and letting the car sort itself out. Then flooring it through the apex while the computer controls grip.
you either are an active driver or you’re ok with getting numb. PDK is an automatic in my book and belongs with the likes of video games. GTR is known to be faster with computer on and is also acclaimed to be video game like. Seems odd people want steering feel but computer controlled shifting.
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