I will never complain about trunk space again!
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There are two reasons why the Solstice/Sky have less trunk space then the S2K/MX5. First is the reverse open trunk. Second is because of the way the rear bumper was designed and the placement of the muffler. The muffler sits vertical instead of horizontal like other cars.
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Originally Posted by TheDonEffect,Apr 16 2009, 12:58 PM
You guys do know the miata's top is not motorized too right?
And it takes less then 10 seconds to to latch/unlatch the top and move it around.
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Lithium,
I don't think the exhaust is the reason. I think the reason is a combination of a tight budget (Toyota spend more money on advertising the Tundra than GM spend developing an entirely new platform!), short development time (maybe), and the limitation of the parts GM had available.
In this old thread I speculated on the engineering reasons:
https://www.s2ki.com/forums/index.php?showt...&#entry13042819
Oddly enough they were on "GM is too dumb to know the difference".
What it really came down to was the Corvette style chassis used on the Kappa. The very strong final drive is larger than the one used in the Miata or S2000. Remember that GM has a version of that drive in the 550hp CTS-V. The part is rather large thus you either need to work the gas tank in around it or, like the Miata, put the gas tank on top of it. The old Miata gas tank is in the exact same spot, right above the prop shaft/final drive. The difference is the Miata parts are smaller and thus the tank sits lower. The rear hinged trunk might have been an issue as it lends to the very short rear deck (thus short trunk) look. The Corvette got around the problem by having two tanks that sit on either side of the drive shaft behind the seats. I suspect this option wasn't possible given the Kappa's target price.
I don't think the exhaust is the reason. I think the reason is a combination of a tight budget (Toyota spend more money on advertising the Tundra than GM spend developing an entirely new platform!), short development time (maybe), and the limitation of the parts GM had available.
In this old thread I speculated on the engineering reasons:
https://www.s2ki.com/forums/index.php?showt...&#entry13042819
Oddly enough they were on "GM is too dumb to know the difference".
What it really came down to was the Corvette style chassis used on the Kappa. The very strong final drive is larger than the one used in the Miata or S2000. Remember that GM has a version of that drive in the 550hp CTS-V. The part is rather large thus you either need to work the gas tank in around it or, like the Miata, put the gas tank on top of it. The old Miata gas tank is in the exact same spot, right above the prop shaft/final drive. The difference is the Miata parts are smaller and thus the tank sits lower. The rear hinged trunk might have been an issue as it lends to the very short rear deck (thus short trunk) look. The Corvette got around the problem by having two tanks that sit on either side of the drive shaft behind the seats. I suspect this option wasn't possible given the Kappa's target price.
Originally Posted by me
It's an obvious question. Here is what my internet scouts have told me
The coupe/targa wasn't planned in the original Solstice project. As such any conversion would be an add on to the existing car. The car's chassis was designed as an open top car from the get go and there don't seem to be any easy ways to remove some of that structure (to be replaced with roof structure) to save weight. In other words, when you start off with a coupe then chop the top you usually add weight to increase stiffness. The Corvette and Kappas were designed to be open tops from the start so it's not easy to just remove a bit of structure when a roof is added. Hence, you don't have weight savings.
So why not a coupe anyway? Even if we can't remove weight we can add stiffness.
Well, here's where all those federal auto standards come in. Apparently if GM had made the car a coupe they would actually have to do a lot of additional crash testing or such. Automobile Mag had some info on this. The story was essentially, the windshield header would need to be redesigned. However, if the car is a Targa then it can use the same structure (and presumably same test data) as the open top car. Thus the project can be done for less money.
I know we may say GM is just being cheap but consider they do want to make money on this car. They don't expect the Targa to be a big seller so they are keeping the R&D costs low by making it a targa instead of a fixed roof coupe. Given that the car wasn't likely to see any big weight loss as a true coupe vs targa I don't see going the targa route as a problem. How many people are pissed of that the standard Corvette is actually a targa? The only fixed roof C6 Corvette is actually the Z06 (and presumably the ZR1).
Saki GT,
I do share your sentiments. I'm not entirely sure what the real answer is but consider the following. The Kappa architecture is very similar to that of the Corvette. In looking at the frame design it looks like the hydroformed rails really do take up a lot of space in the car. Additionally the backbone of the car is rather high. You can see this in the interior. There is no center glove box like there is in say a Miata. However, the arm rest is very tall. That's because the backbone structure of the car comes up that high. It's very stiff but that comes at a price.
I would guess that the Kappa gas tank is placed much like that in the Miata and S2000. It's placed above the drive line behind the passenger compartment. However, in the Kappa above the drive line is quite high.
What about the Corvette? Well the Corvette structure does have the same limitation but the Corvette team had a big advantage... extra cash. The Corvette does a saddle tank arrangement. It has two gas tanks that sit on either side of the central tunnel. The two tanks are connected via cross over tubes. This was not a low cost solution and actually gets quite a bit of mention during the development of the C5 in All Corvettes are Red.
Basically, the Corvette was at risk of having the same problem but solved it via cash. Hopefully with some additional money and time GM will come up with a solution for the Kappa tank design.
One last thing, It looks like GM placed the targa's load floor at the same height as the top of the gas tank. That should mean there is quite a bit of under floor storage space (and GM has mentioned compartments). It's possible that there is a good bit more storage space than the trunk volume indicates. That is speculation on my part.
The coupe/targa wasn't planned in the original Solstice project. As such any conversion would be an add on to the existing car. The car's chassis was designed as an open top car from the get go and there don't seem to be any easy ways to remove some of that structure (to be replaced with roof structure) to save weight. In other words, when you start off with a coupe then chop the top you usually add weight to increase stiffness. The Corvette and Kappas were designed to be open tops from the start so it's not easy to just remove a bit of structure when a roof is added. Hence, you don't have weight savings.
So why not a coupe anyway? Even if we can't remove weight we can add stiffness.
Well, here's where all those federal auto standards come in. Apparently if GM had made the car a coupe they would actually have to do a lot of additional crash testing or such. Automobile Mag had some info on this. The story was essentially, the windshield header would need to be redesigned. However, if the car is a Targa then it can use the same structure (and presumably same test data) as the open top car. Thus the project can be done for less money.
I know we may say GM is just being cheap but consider they do want to make money on this car. They don't expect the Targa to be a big seller so they are keeping the R&D costs low by making it a targa instead of a fixed roof coupe. Given that the car wasn't likely to see any big weight loss as a true coupe vs targa I don't see going the targa route as a problem. How many people are pissed of that the standard Corvette is actually a targa? The only fixed roof C6 Corvette is actually the Z06 (and presumably the ZR1).
Saki GT,
I do share your sentiments. I'm not entirely sure what the real answer is but consider the following. The Kappa architecture is very similar to that of the Corvette. In looking at the frame design it looks like the hydroformed rails really do take up a lot of space in the car. Additionally the backbone of the car is rather high. You can see this in the interior. There is no center glove box like there is in say a Miata. However, the arm rest is very tall. That's because the backbone structure of the car comes up that high. It's very stiff but that comes at a price.
I would guess that the Kappa gas tank is placed much like that in the Miata and S2000. It's placed above the drive line behind the passenger compartment. However, in the Kappa above the drive line is quite high.
What about the Corvette? Well the Corvette structure does have the same limitation but the Corvette team had a big advantage... extra cash. The Corvette does a saddle tank arrangement. It has two gas tanks that sit on either side of the central tunnel. The two tanks are connected via cross over tubes. This was not a low cost solution and actually gets quite a bit of mention during the development of the C5 in All Corvettes are Red.
Basically, the Corvette was at risk of having the same problem but solved it via cash. Hopefully with some additional money and time GM will come up with a solution for the Kappa tank design.
One last thing, It looks like GM placed the targa's load floor at the same height as the top of the gas tank. That should mean there is quite a bit of under floor storage space (and GM has mentioned compartments). It's possible that there is a good bit more storage space than the trunk volume indicates. That is speculation on my part.
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Originally Posted by ITBs2k,Apr 15 2009, 09:41 PM
I wonder why GM needed a bailout for these amazing car designs?
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Originally Posted by Shinigami,Apr 18 2009, 10:39 AM
However (if you don't mind me pointing this out), it is possible to open and lower the top in a Miata whilst sitting down in the seat. It's a little harder to lift it back up in the NA and NB models, but it can be done if you're careful. A lot easier in the NC.
And it takes less then 10 seconds to to latch/unlatch the top and move it around.
And it takes less then 10 seconds to to latch/unlatch the top and move it around.
Someone else also mentioned they offer a power retractable hardtop, for a lot more money. I'd rather have the GXP coupe that has a targa then get that. Now an mazdaspeed version of the retractable hardtop would be enticing, but I doubt it'll cost 30K.
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Originally Posted by Lithium Lotus,Apr 18 2009, 03:03 PM
But you have to unzip/rezip the rear window in the NA tops.
aaaanyway...
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