Stack,

I was talking about "from an enthusiast perspective." If you'd pick a 290hp (or whatever weak number it is) GS430 over a 469hp STS-V with much better handling, braking, etc. then you must not be much of an enthusiast.

Toyota can obviously compete with GM on many levels, but cars that enthusiasts like to drive, GM takes the cake now.

Also, the joker that put a picture of the IS-F up, IT'S NOT EVEN OUT YET. If you want to get in that game, we can add the Camaro, new Caddy CTS which is going to get some killer motor options, new Monaro RWD sedan, etc.

Yes, I should have added the Kappa cars to that list. The Solstice GXP and Sky Redline are vehicles that Toyota has nothing even close to compete with them. Does Toyota even make a convertible besides the utterly lame Solara convertible?

 

"bla bla bla, Toyota

 

sorry but when I think of cars for enthusiast. GM is not in my thoughts.

how many enthusiast even consider gm cars when they car shop?

toyota hit it right with their targeted market. however they been branded as the you can't go wrong but boring car company. Just as walmart has branded themselves as the store for low and average goods. I don't see toyota changing that. just as I don't see walmart selling rolex or other high end goods.

maybe toyota need to create a new newplate just for sportscars. lexus is for luxurary

 

[QUOTE=PLYRS 3,Apr 24 2007, 09:07 AM] .........

 

never is a long time. Dont you mean not in your lifetime?

 

And I remember that being said about Japanese cars 35 years ago.

Couldn't compete. Cars are crap. People won't embrace cars outside the USA.

The mass bulk of Japanese car sales are to people looking for a good value on a driving appliance. The Chinese will undercut the Japanese on cost by a large margin.

If the reliability of Chinese cars is even 95% that of Japanese cars, the cars will sell on cost alone. If the reliability of Chinese cars is substantially less than Japanese cars, you will have a substantial market that buys Chinese cars because they are dirt cheap and dumps them at 90,000 miles.

I'm just shocke you would bet against the Chinese because I only too clearly remember the same exact thing being said about the Japanese. You don't think the Chinese can meet Japanese quality? Why not?

They don't know how? They will get the methods to do so, beg, borrow or steal, even if they have to resort to espionage.

They can't make their workers perform quality work? The Chinese are pretty ruthless. Any country that can get impose slave labor on a portion of their workforce to hand-paint childrens toys and sell those toys for less than any other nation on earth can afford to do so -- ditto the clothing industry -- can find a way to make cars about as reliable as the Japanese can. It is not as though China is lacking for engineers.

Never mind. If you don't believe it, nothing I can say will change your mind.

 

Vette
Camaro (it's coming back)
I may not like them but plenty of folks do.
Some says the Vette may even out gun the S2000.

 

it's a pointless statistic anyways....pride is all that it matters for; and I think they've known for a long time that it isn't just about the number of units they're moving. GM needs to (and I think they know this) recreate their brand as something desirable, not something that is on every corner--cuz toyota has proven themselves better at that one.

 

Doesn't surprise me. I also agree it was only a matter of time.

 

Everyone here wants a Supra boo hoo. Yeah I had my MKIV single turbo so ha ha ha. It was a great car, but it doesn't make money. I feel in the future Toyota/Lexus/Scion will make cars for us, just be patient.

Sam