No, I meant if they built cars as WELL (comparative to the segment) as their trucks, they'd be in great shape.

 

No, I mean never. They just have too many comapanies to pass. They have to sell on lots of content cheap and work a million bugs out. They also have one billion people and zero originality. Check out the thread of the Shanghi auto show. Everything is a cheap copy.


If they are going to compete on the cheap, (and chinese standard of living is going up fast) its not long before they have to compete with cheaper cars from India. Then cheaper cars from Bangladesh. Daewoo did not do that well, Kia is not exactly on fire.

Toyota also said they can make super cheap cars for the third world. I forget the stated cost but it was far south of $10k, that is the market China will be playing in. If you were going to buy a $6k car would you buy the chinese version or the Toyota? Toyota does not seem like they are willing to concede ANY segment of the market (sports cars excluded). I don't expect that to change.

Do I think China will become a player in the market? Sure. Do I think they will become #1 someday. No way.

Now if everyone here was excited about buying a chinese car, I might have a different opinion. I just dont see it.

 

not true.

i don't buy GM vehicles b/c they don't offer anything that interests me. and, i'm not a fan of their "philosophy" either....

tell me...in what consumer vehicle segment do they provide the best offering in that segment? only one i can think of is the corvette.

is the STS "better" than a 7-series? A8-series? S-class?
is the CTS "better" than an 3-series? A4-series? C-class?
is the sunfire "better" than a civic? corolla? sentra?

and the list goes on....

and, i'm not the only one that feels that way....GM has been losing market share for years....you should be asking yourself "why is that?" "is everyone else stupid and i'm the only smart one?".

those "lost" customers are the people you should be convincing...not me.

 

You have a point but consider the Caddies in question are also lower priced than the cars you reference. That same plan worked nicely for Lexus.

Also the Tahoe is best in class. Same for the Silverado. The new Saturn/GMC/Buick SUVs appear to be shooting for best in class (or at least at price point).

You are correct, no one wants to think they are buying just good enough but often they don't think about it. Toyota does very well in part because they are the don't think about it choice rather than the best in class choice. How else can you explain the sales of ANY Camrys instead of an Accord.

 

[QUOTE=rockville,Apr 25 2007, 10:58 AM] You have a point but consider the Caddies in question are also lower priced than the cars you reference.

 

But the STS is something like $20k+ cheaper.
The CTS (which looks like it will be class leading in '08) is likely upwards of $10k cheaper than some of the comparable 3 series models.
Note that both are similar in price to cars like the G35, M35 etc.

The RSX just beat out the new BMW X5 (but not the MDX) in C&D's recent review. That certainly suggests they aren't trying to good enough.

I'm not saying you are entirely wrong but clearly there is evidence that GM isn't trying to just do "good enough". Certainly there is evidence that says they actually hit that class leading target from time to time as well (Trucks).

I certainly don't buy the notion that they "choose" not to. They choose a path they think will make money. Many companies that decided to always shoot for the stars have ended up missing and failing. GM got big in part on being just good enough. Toyota certainly isn't class leading but they seem to be doing very well.

 

no, they've chosen to make PRODUCTS that they think will make them money.

the "path" they've chosen is wrong....

we can both decide to make the same thing - a widget. but how we get to the end-product can differ dramatically....and the end-product will resemble that philosophy.

 

The most exciting Toyota is the FJ Cruiser- and I never liked SUVs. I want it in blue.

 

I've seen a CTS at my friends body shop with the fenders and bumpers off. The way the frame is put together looks really ghetto and imprecise IMHO as well as my friends. He told me there are hammer marks from the factory on the frame to make everything align and the sheet metal is roughly folded over. Even a Civic or Maxima looks like they have much cleaner chassis.

 

Well I recently added to the sales numbers at Toyota by purchasing a new Tacoma which seems to be the new f150 for Toyota. The increase in size and power over the previous models is quite dramatic and it's only slightly smaller then the full size f150 from ford.

I have seen a large number of these new Tacoma