Logical upgrade from my S2000?
06-04-2015, 09:50 AM
#72
06-04-2015, 09:57 AM
#74
06-04-2015, 09:58 AM
#75
06-04-2015, 10:05 AM
#76
One other car I forgot to mention, FD RX7. I know the NSX vs FD comparison has been made before and usually involves a discussion around engine reliability, but has anyone here owned/tracked both?
06-04-2015, 10:28 AM
#77
I was in the same boat as you VERY recently, even was preparing to part out my car. My budget was the same too, sub $40k. I had pretty much the same criteria as you, with reliability and the feeling of an "upgrade" high on my list though. What I decided? Keep the S2000, save up until I can get what I REALLY want. If you want to know the details, I apologize in advance for the long read...
I was shopping: Elise/Exige, 987.1/2 Cayman S, E90/92 M3, Corvette C6/Z,997 911, and of course, NSX.
Like Billy said, everyone's situation (financial and otherwise), desires and tastes are different, but these were basically my opinions/conclusions on the above cars:
Elise/Exige: Better handling than S2000, WAY better looking, but a lot less comfortable and possibility of cam wipe.
987.1/2 Cayman: Great handling, Porsche performance, decent looking (not beautiful though), reliability questionable. 987.1 MAY have IMS failure while 987.2 got rid of IMS and has a DI engine with bump in power, but still has some issues like water pump failure I think.
E90/92 M3: Great looking car, HUGELY powerful, easily DD'able, but very bad MPG and still BMW reliability, although not too bad for a BMW. Supposedly biggest problem is rod bearings.
Corvette C6/Z: I wanted the Z (or GS) because of the widebody, but only a few were below $40K. Hugely powerful and DD'able for sure, but not light and nimble like what we're used to. Huge tires would be expensive and frequent. Reliability not bad.
997.1/2 911: First gen may have IMS failure, second gen 09+ will need $50K+ (as of right now).
NSX: Great handling, car overall feels familiar, looks decent stock (definitely needs some exterior mods to freshen it up), but way overpriced right now for the age (unless you plan to keep it like a collectors car and barely drive it as an investment, but even then, you'd need a higher budget to get a pristine example with low miles). So a huge negative would be high mileage and old car problems like old rubber, slow windows, etc.
This was my situation for right NOW. Yours is a bit different since you're thinking ahead and so your options will change because the cars you're interested in will get cheaper (except maybe the NSX). I definitely think the 987.2 (09-13) Cayman will be in your price range within 2 years. NSX's will probably keep increasing in the next year or so and will just get older and have more mileage. So if that's the car you really want, stop wasting time here and go get one.
The reason I decided to keep my S2000 was because while each of those cars could best the S2000 in a certain category, none of them could match the S2000 as an overall package. Sure the M3 has back seats and more space, the C6 has double the power, or the Elise looks way more exotic and sexier than the S2K, but overall, I didn't like any of these cars ENOUGH, OVER the s2000 to let it go--they all fell short in some way. None of these cars were better than my S2000 enough for me to KNOW without a doubt that I'd be making the right decision. I've had my S2000 for 8 years with 100K miles on it now and the only failures I've had were two engine mounts and a diff mount. That's maybe $150-200 total in parts + easy DIY labor? Hard to beat that. I repair all of my cars myself too, so reliability and ease of DIY is paramount.
A big thing for me was that I didn't want to regret it. I take a long time on all of my decisions because I like to make sure I get it done right the first time. If my S2000 was stock, I could always just buy another one if I had regretted it--but I would have a hell of a time building another S2000 like the one I'd built, so I was a bit more strict about the replacement. Instead of trying to get into something else right now, I decided to be patient and wait for my buying power to increase.
I don't know how old you are or what your future financial situation looks like, but most of us are young-ish, 20's & 30's in age, and so will be making more money in the future. I knew that my budget was limiting me greatly. I knew that something like the 981 Cayman would be the perfect fit for me, or even a 991 base. Getting into a Porsche would truly make me feel like I 'upgraded' and it would still be an awesome performance car with great creature comforts (thinking for my older self who will be growing my family soon). It seems like the most logical upgrade. Why not just settle for a 987.2 Cayman? I'm just not overly ecstatic about the styling. I think it looks good, but the 981 cayman looks miles better. Yes new is expensive, so i'd be looking used at a 3-5 yr old model to fit my budget (maybe $50-60K). The good thing for buyers and not so good for sellers is that Euro cars depreciate fast. I hadn't mentioned this before, but I also want my next car to be something that I don't have to do a ton of mods to, to get it where I want. In a 981 or 991, the performance suspension (both the aggressiveness and height) would suit me just fine and all i'd need would be a set of wheels. Even the OE optional performance exhaust would be enough.
I'm not necessarily saying a 981 or 991 in particular would fit you or your financial situation in X years, but more saying that it seems you might be 'settling' for these other cars on your list (since you're struggling with a decision and there's no clear #1 choice) and if so, would you be willing to wait past 2 years if you could get into a car that fits your needs even more? Even though our cars were $30K ish new, many of us spend thousands upon thousands on them to the point where we could have just saved the money and gotten a better car. You hand mentioned getting an NSX and worried about it being the "end game." Is the "end game" car what you're looking for at the end of the day? a car that you can be happy with until you're retired? I keep my cars for long periods of time, while others don't mind switching out more frequently, so I would understand that sentiment. Because I own my cars for a long time, I knew the right choice NOT to compromise in any way and just wait until I have the money to get the car that I REALLY want.
Of course you'd have to weigh the pros/cons for waiting it out within reason, based on your current and future situation. I'd like to own a 991 GT3 RS and can probably save up for one and afford it by the time i'm 80, but that's just not reasonable
I was shopping: Elise/Exige, 987.1/2 Cayman S, E90/92 M3, Corvette C6/Z,997 911, and of course, NSX.
Like Billy said, everyone's situation (financial and otherwise), desires and tastes are different, but these were basically my opinions/conclusions on the above cars:
Elise/Exige: Better handling than S2000, WAY better looking, but a lot less comfortable and possibility of cam wipe.
987.1/2 Cayman: Great handling, Porsche performance, decent looking (not beautiful though), reliability questionable. 987.1 MAY have IMS failure while 987.2 got rid of IMS and has a DI engine with bump in power, but still has some issues like water pump failure I think.
E90/92 M3: Great looking car, HUGELY powerful, easily DD'able, but very bad MPG and still BMW reliability, although not too bad for a BMW. Supposedly biggest problem is rod bearings.
Corvette C6/Z: I wanted the Z (or GS) because of the widebody, but only a few were below $40K. Hugely powerful and DD'able for sure, but not light and nimble like what we're used to. Huge tires would be expensive and frequent. Reliability not bad.
997.1/2 911: First gen may have IMS failure, second gen 09+ will need $50K+ (as of right now).
NSX: Great handling, car overall feels familiar, looks decent stock (definitely needs some exterior mods to freshen it up), but way overpriced right now for the age (unless you plan to keep it like a collectors car and barely drive it as an investment, but even then, you'd need a higher budget to get a pristine example with low miles). So a huge negative would be high mileage and old car problems like old rubber, slow windows, etc.
This was my situation for right NOW. Yours is a bit different since you're thinking ahead and so your options will change because the cars you're interested in will get cheaper (except maybe the NSX). I definitely think the 987.2 (09-13) Cayman will be in your price range within 2 years. NSX's will probably keep increasing in the next year or so and will just get older and have more mileage. So if that's the car you really want, stop wasting time here and go get one.
The reason I decided to keep my S2000 was because while each of those cars could best the S2000 in a certain category, none of them could match the S2000 as an overall package. Sure the M3 has back seats and more space, the C6 has double the power, or the Elise looks way more exotic and sexier than the S2K, but overall, I didn't like any of these cars ENOUGH, OVER the s2000 to let it go--they all fell short in some way. None of these cars were better than my S2000 enough for me to KNOW without a doubt that I'd be making the right decision. I've had my S2000 for 8 years with 100K miles on it now and the only failures I've had were two engine mounts and a diff mount. That's maybe $150-200 total in parts + easy DIY labor? Hard to beat that. I repair all of my cars myself too, so reliability and ease of DIY is paramount.
A big thing for me was that I didn't want to regret it. I take a long time on all of my decisions because I like to make sure I get it done right the first time. If my S2000 was stock, I could always just buy another one if I had regretted it--but I would have a hell of a time building another S2000 like the one I'd built, so I was a bit more strict about the replacement. Instead of trying to get into something else right now, I decided to be patient and wait for my buying power to increase.
I don't know how old you are or what your future financial situation looks like, but most of us are young-ish, 20's & 30's in age, and so will be making more money in the future. I knew that my budget was limiting me greatly. I knew that something like the 981 Cayman would be the perfect fit for me, or even a 991 base. Getting into a Porsche would truly make me feel like I 'upgraded' and it would still be an awesome performance car with great creature comforts (thinking for my older self who will be growing my family soon). It seems like the most logical upgrade. Why not just settle for a 987.2 Cayman? I'm just not overly ecstatic about the styling. I think it looks good, but the 981 cayman looks miles better. Yes new is expensive, so i'd be looking used at a 3-5 yr old model to fit my budget (maybe $50-60K). The good thing for buyers and not so good for sellers is that Euro cars depreciate fast. I hadn't mentioned this before, but I also want my next car to be something that I don't have to do a ton of mods to, to get it where I want. In a 981 or 991, the performance suspension (both the aggressiveness and height) would suit me just fine and all i'd need would be a set of wheels. Even the OE optional performance exhaust would be enough.
I'm not necessarily saying a 981 or 991 in particular would fit you or your financial situation in X years, but more saying that it seems you might be 'settling' for these other cars on your list (since you're struggling with a decision and there's no clear #1 choice) and if so, would you be willing to wait past 2 years if you could get into a car that fits your needs even more? Even though our cars were $30K ish new, many of us spend thousands upon thousands on them to the point where we could have just saved the money and gotten a better car. You hand mentioned getting an NSX and worried about it being the "end game." Is the "end game" car what you're looking for at the end of the day? a car that you can be happy with until you're retired? I keep my cars for long periods of time, while others don't mind switching out more frequently, so I would understand that sentiment. Because I own my cars for a long time, I knew the right choice NOT to compromise in any way and just wait until I have the money to get the car that I REALLY want.
Of course you'd have to weigh the pros/cons for waiting it out within reason, based on your current and future situation. I'd like to own a 991 GT3 RS and can probably save up for one and afford it by the time i'm 80, but that's just not reasonable
06-04-2015, 10:36 AM
#78
Registered User
Originally Posted by Billj747' timestamp='1433439987' post='23636346
Yes mine had the "OEM" NSX-R wing. Same goes for OEM "CR" wings. Kind of trivial, but still interesting.
There's a new guy on TrackHQ who has an FD, tracks it, and its quite reliable (apparently). I love FDs and if your love for the car propels you into the wankel-world, then go for it. They have a fantastic chassis, looks great, and next to the NSX and Viper, I would love to have one in the garage.
It's hard to find a good condition FD and it will probably take more work ($) to get it to be reliable. NSXs are going up in value, 2nd Gen Vipers have hit a depreciation plateau with many in the 20-30s while the Blue & Whites seem to be appreciating a little. Gen 3's values are tanking like a 996 Porsche and I don't see them or even Gen 4's appreciate if its' not an ACR or a Coupe.
06-04-2015, 10:55 AM
#79
I was in the same boat as you VERY recently, even was preparing to part out my car. My budget was the same too, sub $40k. I had pretty much the same criteria as you, with reliability and the feeling of an "upgrade" high on my list though. What I decided? Keep the S2000, save up until I can get what I REALLY want. If you want to know the details, I apologize in advance for the long read...
I was shopping: Elise/Exige, 987.1/2 Cayman S, E90/92 M3, Corvette C6/Z,997 911, and of course, NSX.
Like Billy said, everyone's situation (financial and otherwise), desires and tastes are different, but these were basically my opinions/conclusions on the above cars:
Elise/Exige: Better handling than S2000, WAY better looking, but a lot less comfortable and possibility of cam wipe.
987.1/2 Cayman: Great handling, Porsche performance, decent looking (not beautiful though), reliability questionable. 987.1 MAY have IMS failure while 987.2 got rid of IMS and has a DI engine with bump in power, but still has some issues like water pump failure I think.
E90/92 M3: Great looking car, HUGELY powerful, easily DD'able, but very bad MPG and still BMW reliability, although not too bad for a BMW. Supposedly biggest problem is rod bearings.
Corvette C6/Z: I wanted the Z (or GS) because of the widebody, but only a few were below $40K. Hugely powerful and DD'able for sure, but not light and nimble like what we're used to. Huge tires would be expensive and frequent. Reliability not bad.
997.1/2 911: First gen may have IMS failure, second gen 09+ will need $50K+ (as of right now).
NSX: Great handling, car overall feels familiar, looks decent stock (definitely needs some exterior mods to freshen it up), but way overpriced right now for the age (unless you plan to keep it like a collectors car and barely drive it as an investment, but even then, you'd need a higher budget to get a pristine example with low miles).
This was my situation for right NOW. Yours is a bit different since you're thinking ahead and so your options will change because the cars you're interested in will get cheaper (except maybe the NSX). I definitely think the 987.2 (09-13) Cayman will be in your price range within 2 years. NSX's will probably keep increasing in the next year or so and will just get older and have more mileage. So if that's the car you really want, stop wasting time here and go get one.
The reason I decided to keep my S2000 was because while each of those cars could best the S2000 in a certain category, none of them could match the S2000 as an overall package. Sure the M3 has back seats and more space, the C6 has double the power, or the Elise looks way more exotic and sexier than the S2K, but overall, I didn't like any of these cars ENOUGH, OVER the s2000 to let it go--they all fell short in some way. None of these cars were better than my S2000 enough for me to KNOW without a doubt that I'd be making the right decision. I've had my S2000 for 8 years with 100K miles on it now and the only failures I've had were two engine mounts and a diff mount. That's maybe $150-200 total in parts + easy DIY labor? Hard to beat that. I repair all of my cars myself too, so reliability and ease of DIY is paramount.
A big thing for me was that I didn't want to regret it. I take a long time on all of my decisions because I like to make sure I get it done right the first time. If my S2000 was stock, I could always just buy another one if I had regretted it--but I would have a hell of a time building another S2000 like the one I'd built, so I was a bit more strict about the replacement. Instead of trying to get into something else right now, I decided to be patient and wait for my buying power to increase.
I don't know how old you are or what your future financial situation looks like, but most of us are young-ish, 20's & 30's in age, and so will be making more money in the future. I knew that my budget was limiting me greatly. I knew that something like the 981 Cayman would be the perfect fit for me, or even a 991 base. Getting into a Porsche would truly make me feel like I 'upgraded' and it would still be an awesome performance car with great creature comforts (thinking for my older self who will be growing my family soon). It seems like the most logical upgrade. Why not just settle for a 987.2 Cayman? I'm just not overly ecstatic about the styling. I think it looks good, but the 981 cayman looks miles better. Yes new is expensive, so i'd be looking used at a 3-5 yr old model to fit my budget (maybe $50-60K). The good thing for buyers and not so good for sellers is that Euro cars depreciate fast. I hadn't mentioned this before, but I also want my next car to be something that I don't have to do a ton of mods to, to get it where I want. In a 981 or 991, the performance suspension (both the aggressiveness and height) would suit me just fine and all i'd need would be a set of wheels. Even the OE optional performance exhaust would be enough.
I'm not necessarily saying a 981 or 991 in particular would fit you or your financial situation in X years, but more saying that it seems you might be 'settling' for these other cars on your list (since you're struggling with a decision and there's no clear #1 choice) and if so, would you be willing to wait past 2 years if you could get into a car that fits your needs even more? Even though our cars were $30K ish new, many of us spend thousands upon thousands on them to the point where we could have just saved the money and gotten a better car. You hand mentioned getting an NSX and worried about it being the "end game." Is the "end game" car what you're looking for at the end of the day? a car that you can be happy with until you're retired? I keep my cars for long periods of time, while others don't mind switching out more frequently, so I would understand that sentiment. Because I own my cars for a long time, I knew the right choice NOT to compromise in any way and just wait until I have the money to get the car that I REALLY want.
Of course you'd have to weigh the pros/cons for waiting it out within reason, based on your current and future situation. I'd like to own a 991 GT3 RS and can probably save up for one and afford it by the time i'm 80, but that's just not reasonable
I was shopping: Elise/Exige, 987.1/2 Cayman S, E90/92 M3, Corvette C6/Z,997 911, and of course, NSX.
Like Billy said, everyone's situation (financial and otherwise), desires and tastes are different, but these were basically my opinions/conclusions on the above cars:
Elise/Exige: Better handling than S2000, WAY better looking, but a lot less comfortable and possibility of cam wipe.
987.1/2 Cayman: Great handling, Porsche performance, decent looking (not beautiful though), reliability questionable. 987.1 MAY have IMS failure while 987.2 got rid of IMS and has a DI engine with bump in power, but still has some issues like water pump failure I think.
E90/92 M3: Great looking car, HUGELY powerful, easily DD'able, but very bad MPG and still BMW reliability, although not too bad for a BMW. Supposedly biggest problem is rod bearings.
Corvette C6/Z: I wanted the Z (or GS) because of the widebody, but only a few were below $40K. Hugely powerful and DD'able for sure, but not light and nimble like what we're used to. Huge tires would be expensive and frequent. Reliability not bad.
997.1/2 911: First gen may have IMS failure, second gen 09+ will need $50K+ (as of right now).
NSX: Great handling, car overall feels familiar, looks decent stock (definitely needs some exterior mods to freshen it up), but way overpriced right now for the age (unless you plan to keep it like a collectors car and barely drive it as an investment, but even then, you'd need a higher budget to get a pristine example with low miles).
This was my situation for right NOW. Yours is a bit different since you're thinking ahead and so your options will change because the cars you're interested in will get cheaper (except maybe the NSX). I definitely think the 987.2 (09-13) Cayman will be in your price range within 2 years. NSX's will probably keep increasing in the next year or so and will just get older and have more mileage. So if that's the car you really want, stop wasting time here and go get one.
The reason I decided to keep my S2000 was because while each of those cars could best the S2000 in a certain category, none of them could match the S2000 as an overall package. Sure the M3 has back seats and more space, the C6 has double the power, or the Elise looks way more exotic and sexier than the S2K, but overall, I didn't like any of these cars ENOUGH, OVER the s2000 to let it go--they all fell short in some way. None of these cars were better than my S2000 enough for me to KNOW without a doubt that I'd be making the right decision. I've had my S2000 for 8 years with 100K miles on it now and the only failures I've had were two engine mounts and a diff mount. That's maybe $150-200 total in parts + easy DIY labor? Hard to beat that. I repair all of my cars myself too, so reliability and ease of DIY is paramount.
A big thing for me was that I didn't want to regret it. I take a long time on all of my decisions because I like to make sure I get it done right the first time. If my S2000 was stock, I could always just buy another one if I had regretted it--but I would have a hell of a time building another S2000 like the one I'd built, so I was a bit more strict about the replacement. Instead of trying to get into something else right now, I decided to be patient and wait for my buying power to increase.
I don't know how old you are or what your future financial situation looks like, but most of us are young-ish, 20's & 30's in age, and so will be making more money in the future. I knew that my budget was limiting me greatly. I knew that something like the 981 Cayman would be the perfect fit for me, or even a 991 base. Getting into a Porsche would truly make me feel like I 'upgraded' and it would still be an awesome performance car with great creature comforts (thinking for my older self who will be growing my family soon). It seems like the most logical upgrade. Why not just settle for a 987.2 Cayman? I'm just not overly ecstatic about the styling. I think it looks good, but the 981 cayman looks miles better. Yes new is expensive, so i'd be looking used at a 3-5 yr old model to fit my budget (maybe $50-60K). The good thing for buyers and not so good for sellers is that Euro cars depreciate fast. I hadn't mentioned this before, but I also want my next car to be something that I don't have to do a ton of mods to, to get it where I want. In a 981 or 991, the performance suspension (both the aggressiveness and height) would suit me just fine and all i'd need would be a set of wheels. Even the OE optional performance exhaust would be enough.
I'm not necessarily saying a 981 or 991 in particular would fit you or your financial situation in X years, but more saying that it seems you might be 'settling' for these other cars on your list (since you're struggling with a decision and there's no clear #1 choice) and if so, would you be willing to wait past 2 years if you could get into a car that fits your needs even more? Even though our cars were $30K ish new, many of us spend thousands upon thousands on them to the point where we could have just saved the money and gotten a better car. You hand mentioned getting an NSX and worried about it being the "end game." Is the "end game" car what you're looking for at the end of the day? a car that you can be happy with until you're retired? I keep my cars for long periods of time, while others don't mind switching out more frequently, so I would understand that sentiment. Because I own my cars for a long time, I knew the right choice NOT to compromise in any way and just wait until I have the money to get the car that I REALLY want.
Of course you'd have to weigh the pros/cons for waiting it out within reason, based on your current and future situation. I'd like to own a 991 GT3 RS and can probably save up for one and afford it by the time i'm 80, but that's just not reasonable
Out of those, I'm wary of the Elise/Exige being expensive to own/fix. 987.1/2 Cayman S would probably be perfect from a pure driving perspective, but like you, I just don't find them very aesthetically pleasing or "special" enough. E90/E92 M3 isn't focused enough for me, and I already have a great daily driver. C6/Z06 are great fun but not quite what I'm looking for. 997 Carrera S is still a possibility, but only slightly more special than the 987 Cayman S to my eyes.
A 981 Cayman S should be a great choice, but I'll have to see how prices look in a few years. 991 would be out of my price range for sure.
The NSX on paper still appeals to me the most. That's why it's my "end game" car. The exterior, interior, sound, and history all add up to more than the sum of its parts. The one thing I still need to experience first-hand is how it drives. I drove one a few years ago but I need a refreshed perspective on a well-sorted example. In the past I assumed the steering, balance, grip, brakes, engine performance would all be fantastic with just a few basic mods, but the more I research the more I hear about some of the weak points.
06-04-2015, 10:59 AM
#80
Originally Posted by Sebring AP1' timestamp='1433440209' post='23636354
[quote name='Billj747' timestamp='1433439987' post='23636346']
Yes mine had the "OEM" NSX-R wing. Same goes for OEM "CR" wings. Kind of trivial, but still interesting.
Yes mine had the "OEM" NSX-R wing. Same goes for OEM "CR" wings. Kind of trivial, but still interesting.
There's a new guy on TrackHQ who has an FD, tracks it, and its quite reliable (apparently). I love FDs and if your love for the car propels you into the wankel-world, then go for it. They have a fantastic chassis, looks great, and next to the NSX and Viper, I would love to have one in the garage.
It's hard to find a good condition FD and it will probably take more work ($) to get it to be reliable. NSXs are going up in value, 2nd Gen Vipers have hit a depreciation plateau with many in the 20-30s while the Blue & Whites seem to be appreciating a little. Gen 3's values are tanking like a 996 Porsche and I don't see them or even Gen 4's appreciate if its' not an ACR or a Coupe.
[/quote]
Yeah, they are really hard to find. My next door neighbor owns 2. One is tastefully modded and just got repainted, while the other looks like junk but still runs. I don't think he tracks either car, though.
I think the "specialness" of the FD isn't that far off from the NSX, but the TT rotary just scares the s*** out of me.