Logical upgrade from my S2000?
06-04-2015, 11:05 AM
#81
Registered User
You do need to submerse yourself in the rotary world and don't blame you for being hesitant. Or go to the V8RX7 forums and pick up a completed project and have a mini-viper!
Actually a guy recently reached out to me who sold his LS-FD for a Gen 2 Viper. I personally think the Cayman S is a great handling car with enough power to have fun and I think it looks good. But it's all subjective. Go read the Viper articles: http://www.motoiq.com/Projects/Dodge/ViperGTS.aspx (I need the pageviews!) lol, jk. But seriously, check out the first article on the car's history. Like the NSX, the Viper has a class win at LeMans (actually multiple wins with a more decorated racing career). It has a unique story that you may find entertaining.
But then again, Senna consulted on the NSX
Actually a guy recently reached out to me who sold his LS-FD for a Gen 2 Viper. I personally think the Cayman S is a great handling car with enough power to have fun and I think it looks good. But it's all subjective. Go read the Viper articles: http://www.motoiq.com/Projects/Dodge/ViperGTS.aspx (I need the pageviews!) lol, jk. But seriously, check out the first article on the car's history. Like the NSX, the Viper has a class win at LeMans (actually multiple wins with a more decorated racing career). It has a unique story that you may find entertaining.
But then again, Senna consulted on the NSX
06-04-2015, 12:24 PM
#82
Senna consulting = +9000 novelty points 
As a former V8rx7 owner, I'd actually recommend the rotary over it. Of all the ones I've had seat time in, the car just feels "right" with the wankel in it (or even a 3 rotor if you fancy.) To do the v8 swap properly is going to cost a lot of money and take quite a bit of time if you don't buy a pre-sorted car. (Baffle, sump system etc. is a necessity) If you're not mechanically inclined, I wouldn't recommend this route. Depending on power levels you're constantly retorquing the subframe bolts, etc and doing a lot of routine checkups to make sure nothing will break. I had the hinson kit with an LS3 motor pushing 475ish wheel horsepower with a mild cam and some headwork. The car was pretty stupid in a straight line but I could never get it to feel as good as my friends rotary powered car in the corners.
As a former V8rx7 owner, I'd actually recommend the rotary over it. Of all the ones I've had seat time in, the car just feels "right" with the wankel in it (or even a 3 rotor if you fancy.) To do the v8 swap properly is going to cost a lot of money and take quite a bit of time if you don't buy a pre-sorted car. (Baffle, sump system etc. is a necessity) If you're not mechanically inclined, I wouldn't recommend this route. Depending on power levels you're constantly retorquing the subframe bolts, etc and doing a lot of routine checkups to make sure nothing will break. I had the hinson kit with an LS3 motor pushing 475ish wheel horsepower with a mild cam and some headwork. The car was pretty stupid in a straight line but I could never get it to feel as good as my friends rotary powered car in the corners.
06-04-2015, 12:26 PM
#83
If reliability is even a tiny concern to you, don't get an FD lol!
They're beautiful cars, one of my favorite designs of all time, but there's really no solid way for it to be reliable besides taking the rotary out. I used to work with a bunch of ex-Mazda corporate employees and they all said the same thing. The guys that keep them running, more power to them, but it takes a lot financially and frequently. There's no real "fix" to make one reliable--there are things you can reinforce, but it still would not be bulletproof by any means. There's a reason why no one else has made a wankel engine since, and even in the RX-8, it wasn't very good/reliable. If there was a better way to make it a good/reliable engine, i'm sure Mazda of all people would have found a way by now.
They're beautiful cars, one of my favorite designs of all time, but there's really no solid way for it to be reliable besides taking the rotary out. I used to work with a bunch of ex-Mazda corporate employees and they all said the same thing. The guys that keep them running, more power to them, but it takes a lot financially and frequently. There's no real "fix" to make one reliable--there are things you can reinforce, but it still would not be bulletproof by any means. There's a reason why no one else has made a wankel engine since, and even in the RX-8, it wasn't very good/reliable. If there was a better way to make it a good/reliable engine, i'm sure Mazda of all people would have found a way by now.
06-04-2015, 12:28 PM
#84
Matt Farah did a Youtube video on an LS-swapped FD not too long ago. He said it essentially feels like a Corvette, which I can totally see. He drove it back-to-back with a rotary FD and said he loved the extra torque of the LS, but if you want that kind of performance then just buy a Corvette to begin with. Similar feel and less headache. Though that's just one dude's opinion.
06-04-2015, 12:38 PM
#86
There is a lot of misconception around the rotary. They are first and foremost not as reliable as a piston powered car out the box. Anyone telling you otherwise is lying.
They need cooling mods - oil coolers, larger radiator, among a few others. Once these are done, the only routine maintenance in addition to a piston car is replacing the fuel filter every so often. 15-20k mi. The problem with the motors is if you don't drive them hard - they don't run as well and don't stay clean.
I have a few friends who have tracked them (with the above mods + a little more) reliably and have had absolutely nothing break over the entire life of the car (4-5 years of weekend/track use.) Cost of tracking aside from using more gas is very close to the S2000 (similar tire size, same life on consumables, etc.) They make better use of tires, require less camber, and handle far less finicky. They are not that expensive parts wise and consumable wise for me to say they cost more than an S2000. If you can afford tracking an S2000, the FD will be no different.
Also, if you are purchasing a newer NSX (2000+ MY) the rubber is not any older than an S2000. A 2005 NSX is the same age as approximately half of the S2000 population. Rubber isn't a concern if you're not shopping for an early 90's example.
Or just do this.
They need cooling mods - oil coolers, larger radiator, among a few others. Once these are done, the only routine maintenance in addition to a piston car is replacing the fuel filter every so often. 15-20k mi. The problem with the motors is if you don't drive them hard - they don't run as well and don't stay clean.
I have a few friends who have tracked them (with the above mods + a little more) reliably and have had absolutely nothing break over the entire life of the car (4-5 years of weekend/track use.) Cost of tracking aside from using more gas is very close to the S2000 (similar tire size, same life on consumables, etc.) They make better use of tires, require less camber, and handle far less finicky. They are not that expensive parts wise and consumable wise for me to say they cost more than an S2000. If you can afford tracking an S2000, the FD will be no different.
Also, if you are purchasing a newer NSX (2000+ MY) the rubber is not any older than an S2000. A 2005 NSX is the same age as approximately half of the S2000 population. Rubber isn't a concern if you're not shopping for an early 90's example.
Or just do this.
06-04-2015, 12:43 PM
#87
Thanks for your input. All those cars you were considering are right up my alley.
Out of those, I'm wary of the Elise/Exige being expensive to own/fix. 987.1/2 Cayman S would probably be perfect from a pure driving perspective, but like you, I just don't find them very aesthetically pleasing or "special" enough. E90/E92 M3 isn't focused enough for me, and I already have a great daily driver. C6/Z06 are great fun but not quite what I'm looking for. 997 Carrera S is still a possibility, but only slightly more special than the 987 Cayman S to my eyes.
A 981 Cayman S should be a great choice, but I'll have to see how prices look in a few years. 991 would be out of my price range for sure.
The NSX on paper still appeals to me the most. That's why it's my "end game" car. The exterior, interior, sound, and history all add up to more than the sum of its parts. The one thing I still need to experience first-hand is how it drives. I drove one a few years ago but I need a refreshed perspective on a well-sorted example. In the past I assumed the steering, balance, grip, brakes, engine performance would all be fantastic with just a few basic mods, but the more I research the more I hear about some of the weak points.
Out of those, I'm wary of the Elise/Exige being expensive to own/fix. 987.1/2 Cayman S would probably be perfect from a pure driving perspective, but like you, I just don't find them very aesthetically pleasing or "special" enough. E90/E92 M3 isn't focused enough for me, and I already have a great daily driver. C6/Z06 are great fun but not quite what I'm looking for. 997 Carrera S is still a possibility, but only slightly more special than the 987 Cayman S to my eyes.
A 981 Cayman S should be a great choice, but I'll have to see how prices look in a few years. 991 would be out of my price range for sure.
The NSX on paper still appeals to me the most. That's why it's my "end game" car. The exterior, interior, sound, and history all add up to more than the sum of its parts. The one thing I still need to experience first-hand is how it drives. I drove one a few years ago but I need a refreshed perspective on a well-sorted example. In the past I assumed the steering, balance, grip, brakes, engine performance would all be fantastic with just a few basic mods, but the more I research the more I hear about some of the weak points.
The car isn't expensive to own or fix, besides the clamshell damages which can be pricey to fix or even total the car. This scares away a lot of people for some reason, but how often do you plan for crash/accident damage cost when searching for a car?! I know I don't ever plan to get into accidents lol--and if I do and it gets totaled, whelp, that's what insurance is for...shouldn't be any money out of my pocket. Other than that, even though it has the Lotus name, the engine and drivetrain are Toyota and the rest of the car is pretty solid. Mods are around the same price as the S2000, but not as plentiful (still has decent aftermarket support though, just not Civic levels). Wheels/Tires are 15/16" stagger or 16/17" stagger depending on which you prefer, so they're cheap.
Like I said, only real issue is Cam wipe, which seems to be like the IMS issue on 987.1 Caymans---it hasn't happened enough to make me scratch the car off my list completely, but it's happened enough that it'd linger in my mind frequently. but depending on how you look at it, cam wipe isn't that bad of an issue...you just have to pop your valve cover off to check your cams lobes every now and then.
Actually, if you don't mind illegally smogging since you're in CA, i'd recommend a K20 swap in an Elise. While the Elise/Exige has also been appreciating in value, you can still find some sub $30k. Some rebuilt titles (by a very reputable and trusted seller in FL: http://www.wirewheel.com/) sell for $25K often. Spend $10-15K for a K20 swap installed and you have one hard to beat ride...
06-04-2015, 12:47 PM
#88
There is a lot of misconception around the rotary. They are first and foremost not as reliable as a piston powered car out the box. Anyone telling you otherwise is lying.
They need cooling mods - oil coolers, larger radiator, among a few others. Once these are done, the only routine maintenance in addition to a piston car is replacing the fuel filter every so often. 15-20k mi. The problem with the motors is if you don't drive them hard - they don't run as well and don't stay clean.
I have a few friends who have tracked them (with the above mods + a little more) reliably and have had absolutely nothing break over the entire life of the car (4-5 years of weekend/track use.) Cost of tracking aside from using more gas is very close to the S2000 (similar tire size, same life on consumables, etc.) They make better use of tires, require less camber, and handle far less finicky. They are not that expensive parts wise and consumable wise for me to say they cost more than an S2000. If you can afford tracking an S2000, the FD will be no different.
Also, if you are purchasing a newer NSX (2000+ MY) the rubber is not any older than an S2000. A 2005 NSX is the same age as approximately half of the S2000 population. Rubber isn't a concern if you're not shopping for an early 90's example.
Or just do this.
They need cooling mods - oil coolers, larger radiator, among a few others. Once these are done, the only routine maintenance in addition to a piston car is replacing the fuel filter every so often. 15-20k mi. The problem with the motors is if you don't drive them hard - they don't run as well and don't stay clean.
I have a few friends who have tracked them (with the above mods + a little more) reliably and have had absolutely nothing break over the entire life of the car (4-5 years of weekend/track use.) Cost of tracking aside from using more gas is very close to the S2000 (similar tire size, same life on consumables, etc.) They make better use of tires, require less camber, and handle far less finicky. They are not that expensive parts wise and consumable wise for me to say they cost more than an S2000. If you can afford tracking an S2000, the FD will be no different.
Also, if you are purchasing a newer NSX (2000+ MY) the rubber is not any older than an S2000. A 2005 NSX is the same age as approximately half of the S2000 population. Rubber isn't a concern if you're not shopping for an early 90's example.
Originally Posted by rob-2' timestamp='1433450322' post='23636604
GT350 or GT350R.
Focused, 5.2 v8 8.2k redline in 6 speed.
Focused, 5.2 v8 8.2k redline in 6 speed.
06-04-2015, 01:16 PM
#90
I don't know if a 91 is in $40k range, maybe a showroom clean model with less than 50K miles, but can't say that I've seen one of those for sale in a long time. MY2000's are in the high 50's at least, depending on mileage and condition. If I wanted an MY2000+ that wasn't old and beat, I'd need AT LEAST 50K, probably $60K to be safe for a really nice one. At that point you really have to wonder if the car is worth it to you. There are a lot of really awesome cars in the $50-70K range...