View Poll Results: RSX-S vs. Celica GT-S
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RSX-S vs. Celica GT-S
03-08-2003, 09:58 AM
#11
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The Celica GTS has been through some improvements since its intro, and the 2003 models are reportedly better than ever.
But, if you're looking at the car for a daily driver, I have to say RSX-S. It is a far more comfortable car with more power and torque. Acura service, if you need it, its a step up. The handling isn't quite as good, but the tires are more than half the problem.
If you want to mod the car, the RSX-S is a far better platform (at least engine wise). Simply adding a CAI, exhaust and Hondata (about $1200 total) will put the car near an S2000 in acceleration, with significantly better bottom end grunt. To truly compete with S2000 acceleration you'll need to invest another $1000 or so in hp parts. Another $1000 will put you well past an S2000 in straightline speed.
UL
But, if you're looking at the car for a daily driver, I have to say RSX-S. It is a far more comfortable car with more power and torque. Acura service, if you need it, its a step up. The handling isn't quite as good, but the tires are more than half the problem.
If you want to mod the car, the RSX-S is a far better platform (at least engine wise). Simply adding a CAI, exhaust and Hondata (about $1200 total) will put the car near an S2000 in acceleration, with significantly better bottom end grunt. To truly compete with S2000 acceleration you'll need to invest another $1000 or so in hp parts. Another $1000 will put you well past an S2000 in straightline speed.
UL
03-08-2003, 01:18 PM
#12
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I would agree with the impression of that the Celica does handle better and is overall the faster car, though it's engine is not as thrilling. Here is the handling part of a review of the Japanese Integra Type-R, compared with the previous ITR.
Handling
With a 116% stiffer chassis, wider tracks, 17-inch 215 tyres, quicker steering rack, Helical LSD and 4-pot Brembo front brakes, we expect a lot of improvement here. On super-smooth race tracks, it does impress us by lapping 1 or 2 seconds quicker, by showing higher cornering speed and stability, by displaying more predictable rear end movement. However, on public roads, especially the bumpy ones, it handles actually worse than before.
First to be noticed is the increase of understeer, which makes it not as agile and adjustable mid-corner. Where the old Type R drivers can floor down the throttle to swing the car out of corner, the new car has too much understeer to fight with. The rear end is particularly difficult to slide even with heavy provoke. Someone tried to explain that by pointing out the car has more weight at front, but in fact I found the new car's 61:39 front to rear distribution is actually 1 point better than before, so it seems that suspension setting is the one to be blamed.
We should notice that the new Integra has struts replacing double wishbones up front, the former might work brilliant enough in the family hatch Civic but has been never applied to the super-hot Integra Type R. MacPherson strut, if use in front-drive cars, is also famous of torque steer, that coincides with the second flaw of the Integra - too much torque steer. No one complained the old Integra about that, not only because of superior suspensions but also because its 1.8-litre engine did not have sufficient torque to upset the steering. The new engine only makes things worse.
Admittedly, the torque steer is not severe and is usually predictable, but what really upset keen drivers is the unpredictable bump steer. On any surfaces other than super-smooth, the steering is always nervous, letting surface irregularities deviating steering feedback and effort. This make judgement hard to be made. Once again, such weakness is due to the inherent flaw of the new Civic platform. The steering rack is mounted high on the firewall to save space and free up cabin room, but it also leads to a geometry easy to be influenced by bumps.
..And here is a blurb on the differences between the Japanese and the North American version (RSX Type S):
Acura RSX.. The engine of Type S is detuned to 200hp (SAE), which is probably just 10 horses less than the Type R which is rated as JIS. (for your reference, the S2000 is 250hp at JIS and 240hp at SAE but the engine is exactly the same) The reduced horsepower is entirely due to lower compression ratio - 11.0:1 instead of 11.5:1 - to drink RON95 fuel. It red-lines at 7,900rpm, some 500 lower than the Type R. Peak torque is 142lbft. Road & Track recorded 0-60 and 0-100 in 6.7 and 18.0 sec respectively.
The Type S also drives through the 6-speed gearbox, but without LSD, Brembo brakes and all aerodynamic aids while the suspension setting is softer. It is also lack of Recaro seats and Momo steering wheels. The alloy wheels are 16-in only, wearing 205 section tyres.
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I personally would choose the Celica. I absolutely love a well handling car on the real B roads (as I am not interested in track racing at all). Off to the countryside twisties!
Handling
With a 116% stiffer chassis, wider tracks, 17-inch 215 tyres, quicker steering rack, Helical LSD and 4-pot Brembo front brakes, we expect a lot of improvement here. On super-smooth race tracks, it does impress us by lapping 1 or 2 seconds quicker, by showing higher cornering speed and stability, by displaying more predictable rear end movement. However, on public roads, especially the bumpy ones, it handles actually worse than before.
First to be noticed is the increase of understeer, which makes it not as agile and adjustable mid-corner. Where the old Type R drivers can floor down the throttle to swing the car out of corner, the new car has too much understeer to fight with. The rear end is particularly difficult to slide even with heavy provoke. Someone tried to explain that by pointing out the car has more weight at front, but in fact I found the new car's 61:39 front to rear distribution is actually 1 point better than before, so it seems that suspension setting is the one to be blamed.
We should notice that the new Integra has struts replacing double wishbones up front, the former might work brilliant enough in the family hatch Civic but has been never applied to the super-hot Integra Type R. MacPherson strut, if use in front-drive cars, is also famous of torque steer, that coincides with the second flaw of the Integra - too much torque steer. No one complained the old Integra about that, not only because of superior suspensions but also because its 1.8-litre engine did not have sufficient torque to upset the steering. The new engine only makes things worse.
Admittedly, the torque steer is not severe and is usually predictable, but what really upset keen drivers is the unpredictable bump steer. On any surfaces other than super-smooth, the steering is always nervous, letting surface irregularities deviating steering feedback and effort. This make judgement hard to be made. Once again, such weakness is due to the inherent flaw of the new Civic platform. The steering rack is mounted high on the firewall to save space and free up cabin room, but it also leads to a geometry easy to be influenced by bumps.
..And here is a blurb on the differences between the Japanese and the North American version (RSX Type S):
Acura RSX.. The engine of Type S is detuned to 200hp (SAE), which is probably just 10 horses less than the Type R which is rated as JIS. (for your reference, the S2000 is 250hp at JIS and 240hp at SAE but the engine is exactly the same) The reduced horsepower is entirely due to lower compression ratio - 11.0:1 instead of 11.5:1 - to drink RON95 fuel. It red-lines at 7,900rpm, some 500 lower than the Type R. Peak torque is 142lbft. Road & Track recorded 0-60 and 0-100 in 6.7 and 18.0 sec respectively.
The Type S also drives through the 6-speed gearbox, but without LSD, Brembo brakes and all aerodynamic aids while the suspension setting is softer. It is also lack of Recaro seats and Momo steering wheels. The alloy wheels are 16-in only, wearing 205 section tyres.
---
I personally would choose the Celica. I absolutely love a well handling car on the real B roads (as I am not interested in track racing at all). Off to the countryside twisties!
03-08-2003, 02:38 PM
#13
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My brother owns a Celica GT and a Type S.
It really depends on colors heh.
And if u really want HID's right off the bat from a Celica they offer it.
Or the 4yr warranty of the Acura.
Flip a coin or visit both dealers and see what prices are after u work it
out.
It really depends on colors heh.
And if u really want HID's right off the bat from a Celica they offer it.
Or the 4yr warranty of the Acura.
Flip a coin or visit both dealers and see what prices are after u work it
out.
03-08-2003, 05:05 PM
#14
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Test drive both for yourself.
The '03 Celica GT-S has drive-by-wire throttle and optional HIDs. The Celica driving position is better, but the interior materials aren't as nice as in the RSX. In my opinion, the Celica exterior more than makes up for it. The RSX just seems a lot taller to my eye.
The RSX has a slight edge in straight line performance;It's mostly a drivers race from a dead stop. The Celica definitely handles better stock and most likely better with suspension mods as well. A Hotchkis Tuned Celica with NO engine mods "humbled" many supercars in braking, slalom, and skidpad tests. SCC used this same car at Willow Springs and it ran faster than M3's and an EVO VII.
http://www.hotchkistuning.com/frames/toyot...ing_results.htm
The Celica gear shifter was modifed and the gates were widened in 2001 because of the many drivers who mis-shifted, (due to driver error!). This is easily remedied with a short-shift kit.
If I was in the market now for a Celica or RSX, I would still pick the Celica. The only advantage mod-wise the RSX has is the Hondata ECU. Otherwise it's identical. Coil-overs, sways, strut-bars, pulleys, and CAI's are available for both cars.
my .02
The '03 Celica GT-S has drive-by-wire throttle and optional HIDs. The Celica driving position is better, but the interior materials aren't as nice as in the RSX. In my opinion, the Celica exterior more than makes up for it. The RSX just seems a lot taller to my eye.
The RSX has a slight edge in straight line performance;It's mostly a drivers race from a dead stop. The Celica definitely handles better stock and most likely better with suspension mods as well. A Hotchkis Tuned Celica with NO engine mods "humbled" many supercars in braking, slalom, and skidpad tests. SCC used this same car at Willow Springs and it ran faster than M3's and an EVO VII.
http://www.hotchkistuning.com/frames/toyot...ing_results.htm
The Celica gear shifter was modifed and the gates were widened in 2001 because of the many drivers who mis-shifted, (due to driver error!). This is easily remedied with a short-shift kit.
If I was in the market now for a Celica or RSX, I would still pick the Celica. The only advantage mod-wise the RSX has is the Hondata ECU. Otherwise it's identical. Coil-overs, sways, strut-bars, pulleys, and CAI's are available for both cars.
my .02
03-08-2003, 05:47 PM
#15
Registered User
Sorry curveslayer, but that's not correct. Its not just what parts are available, but how the car responds. The 2zz is a fine motor, but it came about 5 years too late. Between the cylinder head, internals, etc. it doesn't have much, if any more potential than the old Honda B-series. The K-series, however, is for all intents and purposes a detuned F20C with a critical advantage of continues VVT on the intake cam. And the very fact that you can buy cams for the K-series is a big advantage as well.
As of now, the best all motor Celica I've dyno'd (I/H/E/SAFC) made 186 whp. The best RSX-S I've dyno'd (I/H/E/ITR Cams/Hondata) made 237 whp. With bigger (yet streetable) cams on the way and headwork beginning, the RSX's are going to blow right throw 260 whp on pump gas - that's on par with several 10-second all-motor Honda engines running super high compression and lasting only a few races. That's also more than any stock 350Z has made on my dyno!! And from a 2.0 liter NA engine.
If I were looking for a track car, I'd probably pick the GT-S, as the much lighter weight is a big advantage (once you start bolting on suspension parts, both cars will respond similarly) and doesn't need as much work to get to an acceptable level. But for an all purpose car, no dice IMO.
UL
As of now, the best all motor Celica I've dyno'd (I/H/E/SAFC) made 186 whp. The best RSX-S I've dyno'd (I/H/E/ITR Cams/Hondata) made 237 whp. With bigger (yet streetable) cams on the way and headwork beginning, the RSX's are going to blow right throw 260 whp on pump gas - that's on par with several 10-second all-motor Honda engines running super high compression and lasting only a few races. That's also more than any stock 350Z has made on my dyno!! And from a 2.0 liter NA engine.
If I were looking for a track car, I'd probably pick the GT-S, as the much lighter weight is a big advantage (once you start bolting on suspension parts, both cars will respond similarly) and doesn't need as much work to get to an acceptable level. But for an all purpose car, no dice IMO.
UL
03-08-2003, 08:53 PM
#16
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Well being an owner for a GT-S Celica (blue, 02) I must say that the celica gt-s is really a great car and yes it handles great for that car. As far as styling wise (exterior) I like it over the RSX. The 1/4 run it really depends on driver, but if driven right on both cars (Celica GT-S and RSX Type-S) I think the rsx type-s is a bit faster. As other members has mention drive both cars. Just to tell you, if you are planning to get the GT-S get the manual tranny one it is FASTER then the sportshift by A LOT. (at least it felt that way to me) My friend just recently bought a 2003 sportshift Blue Celica GT-S for like 25,000 (Done Deal) with the factor HID and the Toyota TRD Body Kit. I miss my celica sometimes and it has been a great car, but time to move on to bigger fishes (s2k, 300zxtt, supra tt) =) Hopefully that helps, if you have anymore questions please feel free to contact me at my e-mail address LemonIce222@yahoo.com
03-08-2003, 08:56 PM
#17
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Oh yeah, I almost forgot!!! As far as the interior on both cars, I think it looks better in the GT-S. I would really say get the Integra Type-R over the RSX Type-S. Did you ever consider the Subraru WRX? Cheers =)
03-09-2003, 01:29 PM
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thanks for all the responses guys. I guess I'm leaning toward the RSX-S for the K20A. The engine sound and exhaust note is amazing while the Celica doesn't really have the sporty feel. Can't imagine what the s2k sounds like.
Anyone have pics of tasty fully modified RSX's or Celicas?
Anyone have pics of tasty fully modified RSX's or Celicas?
03-09-2003, 02:32 PM
#20
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you know my choice 
.
here's the hottest rsx in america IMO...
ings +1 kit & eyelids, cf hood, jdm headlights, intercooler
18" volk gt-p
cf type-r spoiler, apex-i gt spec exhaust, ings +1 kit again
engine bay w/ mugen strut brace & drag turbo kit
boost guages, air/fuel gadgets in glove compartment, mugen steering wheel/shift knob/roll cage, type-r guage cluster, in-dash lcd screens
bride seats w/ takata harnesses, reapholster bride rear seats
.here's the hottest rsx in america IMO...
ings +1 kit & eyelids, cf hood, jdm headlights, intercooler
18" volk gt-p
cf type-r spoiler, apex-i gt spec exhaust, ings +1 kit again
engine bay w/ mugen strut brace & drag turbo kit
boost guages, air/fuel gadgets in glove compartment, mugen steering wheel/shift knob/roll cage, type-r guage cluster, in-dash lcd screens
bride seats w/ takata harnesses, reapholster bride rear seats