Solstice
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I saw my 1st Solstice today. My BB S is very dirty + salty, but the black solstice was sparking clean.. I was sort of jealous 
I was impresses at how badass it looked from the rear (it passed me in traffic, and I could only catch up, not pass), but the S still looks better 100%. Oh.. and it was driven by a 40+ year old man
I was impresses at how badass it looked from the rear (it passed me in traffic, and I could only catch up, not pass), but the S still looks better 100%. Oh.. and it was driven by a 40+ year old man
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[QUOTE=Anrosphynx,Feb 13 2006, 02:34 PM]Yeah, I am sure you got it... GM is sooo concerned about an 18 year old buying the solstice and that it wouldn't sell that they went out and hired Ludacris. They are SO desperate... Common, did you even convince yourself with that statement?.
The average selling price is 25k+ for the car with options, not including dealer mark up, taxes, title, ect. Dealer markup is never included in the average price. I don't know where you live, but here they are marking them up 5k, and they still can't keep them on the showroom floor.
I would call 16 percent a dent especially seeing the limited availability of the car, and the fact that many buyers put down money many many months before the car was released. How many 18 year olds do you know that would plunk down 5k and wait a year before they would actually get the car? Now does the demographics make a little more sense?
GM will have no problems selling this car. And they WILL take sales from the miata. How many hardcore "BUY AMERICAN" individuals have been waiting for a product that was in the miata class? Until now, neither Ford nor GM has produced such a product.
The average selling price is 25k+ for the car with options, not including dealer mark up, taxes, title, ect. Dealer markup is never included in the average price. I don't know where you live, but here they are marking them up 5k, and they still can't keep them on the showroom floor.
I would call 16 percent a dent especially seeing the limited availability of the car, and the fact that many buyers put down money many many months before the car was released. How many 18 year olds do you know that would plunk down 5k and wait a year before they would actually get the car? Now does the demographics make a little more sense?
GM will have no problems selling this car. And they WILL take sales from the miata. How many hardcore "BUY AMERICAN" individuals have been waiting for a product that was in the miata class? Until now, neither Ford nor GM has produced such a product.
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[QUOTE=Suzukaboy,Feb 14 2006, 07:29 AM]By the way read the following and guess which demo they are trying to bump up.
http://www.pontiac.com/divisional/newseven...p?pageSection=5
http://www.pontiac.com/divisional/newseven...p?pageSection=5
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From: Arlington Heights, IL
Originally Posted by Anrosphynx,Feb 13 2006, 05:03 PM
Still a chick car.. you can call it whatever you want, but i think most people would agree, its still a chick car..
Here's the deal:
You can call the Miata a chick car, if you agree the Solstice is a chick car.
You can call the Solstice a chick car, if you agree the Miata is a chick car.
You can say neither is a chick car.
But you CAN'T SAY ONE IS AND THE OTHER ISN'T. They are more or less THE SAME FREAKIN' CAR, with a small 4cyl, good handling, decent styling, and a convertible top. If that means chick car to you, fine. But just cuz you like the Miata and not the Sol, or vice versa, doesn't mean one is a chick car and not the other.
Rant off.
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From: Arlington Heights, IL
Originally Posted by SheDrivesIt,Feb 14 2006, 09:42 AM
Well then. That would make the S2000 ............. A chick car! 
My GF HATES the S2000, and she's the girliest girl I know.
She thinks the Mini convertible, Jetta, and Cabrio are "cute" however.
Funniest quote I read about the new VW hardtop convertible (might have been in this forum): "Only problem with it is, when you put the top down, you can't see the sorority letters in the back window anymore."
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From: Orange County, California
Originally Posted by Suzukaboy,Feb 14 2006, 07:29 AM
okIs GM desperate? Well if you read the business press, yes they are desperate. Potential bankruptcy, GMAC on the block, Delphi in trouble.
What you don't get is that if they don't convince young people and women to look at their cars they won't be around to look at the sedans etc they want to sell them later. You can already see this in the baby boomers. They've been buying Hondas, Toyotas etc for the last 15-20 years. Do think they will suddenly look at Buick when they hit 65 and need a car? Much more rides on the Solstice than it's particular success.
I priced out a Solstice on the Edmunds site which shows, on average, what people are actually paying. The Solstice was $167 over MSRP for the particular configuration I priced. I don't know were you live either but it doesn't appear that much gouging is going on. Maybe GM got smart and jawboned the dealers into not gouging as much as they could have.
As far as demographic "dents" go the 15.8% was cars delivered, not ordered. Lets not forget that that demographic extended until age 36, not just the 18 year old you keep citing. No, who would plunk down 5 grand and wait a year? In a year you'll probably be able to walk in and buy one on the spot. By the way read the following and guess which demo they are trying to bump up.
http://www.pontiac.com/divisional/newseven...p?pageSection=5
GM lost a lot of hard core "BUY AMERICAN" types years ago. Today, how much further does it go than their employees and retirees? Maybe they are the ones buying now. But whatever, people now buy what meets their needs, has perceived quality(works right out of the box) and cool factor. This is Lutz's shot at proving he can get that done.
By the way commenting on GM's predicament is not bashing the car which I have not done.
It's wonderful that you have no worries.
What you don't get is that if they don't convince young people and women to look at their cars they won't be around to look at the sedans etc they want to sell them later. You can already see this in the baby boomers. They've been buying Hondas, Toyotas etc for the last 15-20 years. Do think they will suddenly look at Buick when they hit 65 and need a car? Much more rides on the Solstice than it's particular success.
I priced out a Solstice on the Edmunds site which shows, on average, what people are actually paying. The Solstice was $167 over MSRP for the particular configuration I priced. I don't know were you live either but it doesn't appear that much gouging is going on. Maybe GM got smart and jawboned the dealers into not gouging as much as they could have.
As far as demographic "dents" go the 15.8% was cars delivered, not ordered. Lets not forget that that demographic extended until age 36, not just the 18 year old you keep citing. No, who would plunk down 5 grand and wait a year? In a year you'll probably be able to walk in and buy one on the spot. By the way read the following and guess which demo they are trying to bump up.
http://www.pontiac.com/divisional/newseven...p?pageSection=5
GM lost a lot of hard core "BUY AMERICAN" types years ago. Today, how much further does it go than their employees and retirees? Maybe they are the ones buying now. But whatever, people now buy what meets their needs, has perceived quality(works right out of the box) and cool factor. This is Lutz's shot at proving he can get that done.
By the way commenting on GM's predicament is not bashing the car which I have not done.
It's wonderful that you have no worries.
Consumers are fickle, and they will buy whatever product is preceived to be the "cool" product. How else do you explain GM selling the Escalade in roves? As much as you want to believe that Toyotas or Honda will take over the market from GM, (and it could happen) its entirely possible that these same two companies could soon fall on their face for making bland, unexciting products. Name one product in Toyota's lineup that is "exciting"... yeah, just as I thought.. none.
Further, I completely disagree with your assumption that alot rides on the solstice. The soltice only proved that GM could make an exciting product and bring it to market quickly. Its like saying, the s2000 is essential to Honda's survival. They are both small volume, limited market vehicles. Not the bread and butter like the Camry, Accord, Civic, focus, malibu, cobalt, ect.. Those products are much more important to GM's financial situation.
Yeah, like people are going to admit online that they paid 5k over sticker for a car...
Unsure what you intend to provide by the amount of cars delivered v. ordered. I hope you understand that dealerships were taking orders for almost a full year before production models were available. So these people that had cars delivered most certainly ordered their cars. Again, I go back to the fact that most people under the age of even 36 do NOT have the capital to plunk down money and wait for a car. Whether the buyer is 18, or 28, most people in that demographic don't have alot of extra expendiable capital to wait 6-12 months for the car.
The appropriate course would be to wait a couple of years and see what the demographics are then...
GM has not lost the BUY AMERICAN type. You obviously do NOT live in the Midwest. Go to any city in Illinois, Michigan, Ohio, Iowa, Indiana, Penn, ect.. Most cars are definitely American, and they still have a very strong following. Don't kid yourself. Do you seriously believe that GM/Ford are only selling to rental car agencies?? These people had no outlet for the small, roadster category before the soltice. Now, they have a legit alternative to the miata, Mr2 type.
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Originally Posted by Chris Stack,Feb 14 2006, 09:13 AM
with a small 4cyl, good handling, decent styling, and a convertible top.
Bah, honestly, who care. As long as you like the car you drive, it's all that should matter.
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[QUOTE=Anrosphynx,Feb 14 2006, 10:04 AM]Let see, our discussion turned from is GM desperate to market to an age group, to you spouting about GM's financial situation. Totally unrelated. When making an argument, you should probably focus on the issues raised instead of substituting issues to make a point.
Consumers are fickle, and they will buy whatever product is preceived to be the "cool" product. How else do you explain GM selling the Escalade in roves? As much as you want to believe that Toyotas or Honda will take over the market from GM, (and it could happen) its entirely possible that these same two companies could soon fall on their face for making bland, unexciting products. Name one product in Toyota's lineup that is "exciting"... yeah, just as I thought.. none.
Further, I completely disagree with your assumption that alot rides on the solstice. The soltice only proved that GM could make an exciting product and bring it to market quickly. Its like saying, the s2000 is essential to Honda's survival. They are both small volume, limited market vehicles. Not the bread and butter like the Camry, Accord, Civic, focus, malibu, cobalt, ect.. Those products are much more important to GM's financial situation.
Yeah, like people are going to admit online that they paid 5k over sticker for a car...
Unsure what you intend to provide by the amount of cars delivered v. ordered. I hope you understand that dealerships were taking orders for almost a full year before production models were available. So these people that had cars delivered most certainly ordered their cars. Again, I go back to the fact that most people under the age of even 36 do NOT have the capital to plunk down money and wait for a car. Whether the buyer is 18, or 28, most people in that demographic don't have alot of extra expendiable capital to wait 6-12 months for the car.
The appropriate course would be to wait a couple of years and see what the demographics are then...
GM has not lost the BUY AMERICAN type. You obviously do NOT live in the Midwest. Go to any city in Illinois, Michigan, Ohio, Iowa, Indiana, Penn, ect.. Most cars are definitely American, and they still have a very strong following. Don't kid yourself. Do you seriously believe that GM/Ford are only selling to rental car agencies??
Consumers are fickle, and they will buy whatever product is preceived to be the "cool" product. How else do you explain GM selling the Escalade in roves? As much as you want to believe that Toyotas or Honda will take over the market from GM, (and it could happen) its entirely possible that these same two companies could soon fall on their face for making bland, unexciting products. Name one product in Toyota's lineup that is "exciting"... yeah, just as I thought.. none.
Further, I completely disagree with your assumption that alot rides on the solstice. The soltice only proved that GM could make an exciting product and bring it to market quickly. Its like saying, the s2000 is essential to Honda's survival. They are both small volume, limited market vehicles. Not the bread and butter like the Camry, Accord, Civic, focus, malibu, cobalt, ect.. Those products are much more important to GM's financial situation.
Yeah, like people are going to admit online that they paid 5k over sticker for a car...
Unsure what you intend to provide by the amount of cars delivered v. ordered. I hope you understand that dealerships were taking orders for almost a full year before production models were available. So these people that had cars delivered most certainly ordered their cars. Again, I go back to the fact that most people under the age of even 36 do NOT have the capital to plunk down money and wait for a car. Whether the buyer is 18, or 28, most people in that demographic don't have alot of extra expendiable capital to wait 6-12 months for the car.
The appropriate course would be to wait a couple of years and see what the demographics are then...
GM has not lost the BUY AMERICAN type. You obviously do NOT live in the Midwest. Go to any city in Illinois, Michigan, Ohio, Iowa, Indiana, Penn, ect.. Most cars are definitely American, and they still have a very strong following. Don't kid yourself. Do you seriously believe that GM/Ford are only selling to rental car agencies??