The Formula 1 Thread - 2013
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From: Stanmore
Originally Posted by lovegroova' timestamp='1375126042' post='22694049
FWIW, Grosjean got a further 20 second penalty for the Button incident. No cost in terms of his placing though.
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In pure time terms yes(ish), but a drive through takes that time off you during the race, which can put you back on the track in traffic, which can slow the overall race time down even more than just losing the 20 seconds at the end of the race.
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From: Frustration
As far as I was aware a drive who is alongside another diver must be given 1 car width on the track.
Massa didn't do this and Hamilton didn't do this. Both of them clean drove Grosjean and Webber off the track.
Whereas Vettel was nowhere near Kimi and yet was whining about it on the radio.
Unless i'm mistaken...
Massa didn't do this and Hamilton didn't do this. Both of them clean drove Grosjean and Webber off the track.
Whereas Vettel was nowhere near Kimi and yet was whining about it on the radio.
Unless i'm mistaken...
Former Moderator
Joined: Jan 2004
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From: Stanmore
As far as I was aware a drive who is alongside another diver must be given 1 car width on the track.
Massa didn't do this and Hamilton didn't do this. Both of them clean drove Grosjean and Webber off the track.
Whereas Vettel was nowhere near Kimi and yet was whining about it on the radio.
Unless i'm mistaken...
Massa didn't do this and Hamilton didn't do this. Both of them clean drove Grosjean and Webber off the track.
Whereas Vettel was nowhere near Kimi and yet was whining about it on the radio.
Unless i'm mistaken...
20) DRIVING
20.1 The driver must drive the car alone and unaided.
20.2 Drivers must use the track at all times. For theavoidance of doubt the white lines defining the track edges are considered tobe part of the track but the kerbs are not.
A driver will be judged to have left the track if no part ofthe car remains in contact with the track.
Should a car leave the track the driver may rejoin, however,this may only be done when it is safe to do so and without gaining anyadvantage.
A driver may not deliberately leave the track withoutjustifiable reason.
20.3 More than one change of direction to defend a positionis not permitted. Any driver moving back towards the racing line, havingearlier defended his position off-line, should leave at least one car widthbetween his own car and the edge of the track on the approach to the corner.
20.4 Any driver defending his position on a straight, andbefore any braking area, may use the full width of the track during his firstmove, provided no significant portion of the car attempting to pass isalongside his. Whilst defending in this way the driver may not leave the trackwithout justifiable reason.
For the avoidance of doubt, if any part of the front wing ofthe car attempting to pass is alongside the rear wheel of the car in front thiswill be deemed to be a 'significant portion'.
20.5 Manoeuvres liable to hinder other drivers, such asdeliberate crowding of a car beyond the edge of the track or any other abnormalchange of direction, are not permitted.
20.6 As soon as a car is caught by another car which isabout to lap it during the race the driver must allow the faster driver past atthe first available opportunity. If the driver who has been caught does notallow the faster driver past, waved blue flags will be shown to indicate thathe must allow the following driver to overtake.
20.1 The driver must drive the car alone and unaided.
20.2 Drivers must use the track at all times. For theavoidance of doubt the white lines defining the track edges are considered tobe part of the track but the kerbs are not.
A driver will be judged to have left the track if no part ofthe car remains in contact with the track.
Should a car leave the track the driver may rejoin, however,this may only be done when it is safe to do so and without gaining anyadvantage.
A driver may not deliberately leave the track withoutjustifiable reason.
20.3 More than one change of direction to defend a positionis not permitted. Any driver moving back towards the racing line, havingearlier defended his position off-line, should leave at least one car widthbetween his own car and the edge of the track on the approach to the corner.
20.4 Any driver defending his position on a straight, andbefore any braking area, may use the full width of the track during his firstmove, provided no significant portion of the car attempting to pass isalongside his. Whilst defending in this way the driver may not leave the trackwithout justifiable reason.
For the avoidance of doubt, if any part of the front wing ofthe car attempting to pass is alongside the rear wheel of the car in front thiswill be deemed to be a 'significant portion'.
20.5 Manoeuvres liable to hinder other drivers, such asdeliberate crowding of a car beyond the edge of the track or any other abnormalchange of direction, are not permitted.
20.6 As soon as a car is caught by another car which isabout to lap it during the race the driver must allow the faster driver past atthe first available opportunity. If the driver who has been caught does notallow the faster driver past, waved blue flags will be shown to indicate thathe must allow the following driver to overtake.
The "car's width" applies at the approach to a corner, not the exit it seems...
There was no apparent moaning from Webber about Hamilton's move, so I suspect it's considered fair enough. What Hamilton did was similar to "closing the door" but on the corner exit rather than entry (think of it as a mirror image).
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From: Frustration
Originally Posted by Ultra_Nexus' timestamp='1375183691' post='22695298
As far as I was aware a drive who is alongside another diver must be given 1 car width on the track.
Massa didn't do this and Hamilton didn't do this. Both of them clean drove Grosjean and Webber off the track.
Whereas Vettel was nowhere near Kimi and yet was whining about it on the radio.
Unless i'm mistaken...
Massa didn't do this and Hamilton didn't do this. Both of them clean drove Grosjean and Webber off the track.
Whereas Vettel was nowhere near Kimi and yet was whining about it on the radio.
Unless i'm mistaken...
20) DRIVING
20.1 The driver must drive the car alone and unaided.
20.2 Drivers must use the track at all times. For theavoidance of doubt the white lines defining the track edges are considered tobe part of the track but the kerbs are not.
A driver will be judged to have left the track if no part ofthe car remains in contact with the track.
Should a car leave the track the driver may rejoin, however,this may only be done when it is safe to do so and without gaining anyadvantage.
A driver may not deliberately leave the track withoutjustifiable reason.
20.3 More than one change of direction to defend a positionis not permitted. Any driver moving back towards the racing line, havingearlier defended his position off-line, should leave at least one car widthbetween his own car and the edge of the track on the approach to the corner.
20.4 Any driver defending his position on a straight, andbefore any braking area, may use the full width of the track during his firstmove, provided no significant portion of the car attempting to pass isalongside his. Whilst defending in this way the driver may not leave the trackwithout justifiable reason.
For the avoidance of doubt, if any part of the front wing ofthe car attempting to pass is alongside the rear wheel of the car in front thiswill be deemed to be a 'significant portion'.
20.5 Manoeuvres liable to hinder other drivers, such asdeliberate crowding of a car beyond the edge of the track or any other abnormalchange of direction, are not permitted.
20.6 As soon as a car is caught by another car which isabout to lap it during the race the driver must allow the faster driver past atthe first available opportunity. If the driver who has been caught does notallow the faster driver past, waved blue flags will be shown to indicate thathe must allow the following driver to overtake.
20.1 The driver must drive the car alone and unaided.
20.2 Drivers must use the track at all times. For theavoidance of doubt the white lines defining the track edges are considered tobe part of the track but the kerbs are not.
A driver will be judged to have left the track if no part ofthe car remains in contact with the track.
Should a car leave the track the driver may rejoin, however,this may only be done when it is safe to do so and without gaining anyadvantage.
A driver may not deliberately leave the track withoutjustifiable reason.
20.3 More than one change of direction to defend a positionis not permitted. Any driver moving back towards the racing line, havingearlier defended his position off-line, should leave at least one car widthbetween his own car and the edge of the track on the approach to the corner.
20.4 Any driver defending his position on a straight, andbefore any braking area, may use the full width of the track during his firstmove, provided no significant portion of the car attempting to pass isalongside his. Whilst defending in this way the driver may not leave the trackwithout justifiable reason.
For the avoidance of doubt, if any part of the front wing ofthe car attempting to pass is alongside the rear wheel of the car in front thiswill be deemed to be a 'significant portion'.
20.5 Manoeuvres liable to hinder other drivers, such asdeliberate crowding of a car beyond the edge of the track or any other abnormalchange of direction, are not permitted.
20.6 As soon as a car is caught by another car which isabout to lap it during the race the driver must allow the faster driver past atthe first available opportunity. If the driver who has been caught does notallow the faster driver past, waved blue flags will be shown to indicate thathe must allow the following driver to overtake.
The "car's width" applies at the approach to a corner, not the exit it seems...
There was no apparent moaning from Webber about Hamilton's move, so I suspect it's considered fair enough. What Hamilton did was similar to "closing the door" but on the corner exit rather than entry (think of it as a mirror image).
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From: Stanmore
Think about the infamous Hamilton/Raikonnen incident at the bus stop at Spa. Ham was on the inside going to the second left hand part of the chicane but knew Kimi was going to straight line it to the apex/run Ham off the road (even though Ham was actually in front). Ham therefore went off track on the inside.
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The "car's width" applies at the approach to a corner, not the exit it seems...
There was no apparent moaning from Webber about Hamilton's move, so I suspect it's considered fair enough. What Hamilton did was similar to "closing the door" but on the corner exit rather than entry (think of it as a mirror image).
There was no apparent moaning from Webber about Hamilton's move, so I suspect it's considered fair enough. What Hamilton did was similar to "closing the door" but on the corner exit rather than entry (think of it as a mirror image).
And in Hungry last week, Hamilton didn't completely push Webber off, there was space for 2 wheels still, but Webber went massively wide to be cautious.
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From: Here and awake!
It does need looking at though, I mean we all wowed at the move on Massa, and again with Hamiltons move on Webber, this is surely what 'racing' is all about, overtaking by skill and balls and not ridiculous DRS or whatever the f@#k they introduce to imitate the real thing. F1 is so frustrating at times!
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From: Stanmore
Applies any where. At Monza last year Vettel got a penalty for pushing Alonso off the track. The year before Alonso didn't get one for similar. But if you watch that footage, Alonso leaves enough space for 2 tyres still on track so no penalty.
And in Hungry last week, Hamilton didn't completely push Webber off, there was space for 2 wheels still, but Webber went massively wide to be cautious.
And in Hungry last week, Hamilton didn't completely push Webber off, there was space for 2 wheels still, but Webber went massively wide to be cautious.
Perhaps more relevant than what the rules say s that Red Bull did not make a protest about it to the Stewards.
We all know how F1 operates, any slight infraction and they are all protesting, so we can safely say that Hamilton drove within the rules.
