S2000 vs Boxster
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From: Stanmore
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From: Survivalist enclave
why are some people mystified by the fact that the secondhand price of a car may be easily exceeded by one or two repairs?
they were £50K+ cars new and will invariably have costs in line with that throughout their lifespan
and why would you expect a 10 yo car to be a paragon of reliability either?
buy new and get everything fixed under warranty but pay out in depreciation
or pay old, win on depreciation and pay out for (expensive) repairs
they were £50K+ cars new and will invariably have costs in line with that throughout their lifespan
and why would you expect a 10 yo car to be a paragon of reliability either?
buy new and get everything fixed under warranty but pay out in depreciation
or pay old, win on depreciation and pay out for (expensive) repairs
Joined: Mar 2001
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From: Hertford
I own 2 Citroen vans. The dispatch is now 5 years old, owned for 4 years. Never has one thing gone wrong on it in 60k. Same story with the Berlingo thats now 4 years old and 40k.
Also owned a MY99 Berlingo up until 2012 that in the 10 years of ownership, other than consumables, had a new clutch (at ~150k) and some anti roll bar links twice but was otherwise reliable.
Never had to top up oil on any of these between services and the engines have always been great. I'd say you can't beat PSA diesel engines from my experience.
Not sure where these myths of PSA unreliability come from. I've always found them massively good value for money. German cars arn't what they used to be in terms of reliability if my friends experiences are anything to go by. Don't think I know anyone with a VAG car/van who hasn't had problems with it!
Then again the S has been flawless for me in 5 years of ownership, maybe I just look after my vehicles.
Also owned a MY99 Berlingo up until 2012 that in the 10 years of ownership, other than consumables, had a new clutch (at ~150k) and some anti roll bar links twice but was otherwise reliable.
Never had to top up oil on any of these between services and the engines have always been great. I'd say you can't beat PSA diesel engines from my experience.
Not sure where these myths of PSA unreliability come from. I've always found them massively good value for money. German cars arn't what they used to be in terms of reliability if my friends experiences are anything to go by. Don't think I know anyone with a VAG car/van who hasn't had problems with it!
Then again the S has been flawless for me in 5 years of ownership, maybe I just look after my vehicles.
You will indeed find PSA (& Renault!) vans tend to do very well, despite their lack of perceived quality compared to what turn out to be surprisingly unreliable PoS from the 'premium' van makers. Tend to have fewer turbos to blow their weak HGs too.
Then go look how bad their cars are in the above stats!
Joined: Mar 2004
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From: Nottingham
Originally Posted by Nottm_S2' timestamp='1387629515' post='22933183
These stats need sample sizes, i cant see that anywhere and without it theyre chocolate tea pots afaic
say we're talking about 10 years worth of cars
maybe (
) that's 10k carsof which you might have data on 50
a reasonable sample? no, i dont think so. given things like people buying warranty due to prev breakdown
my S2000 has been the paragon of trouble free motoring but then our Vectra DTi was pretty bulletproof too, the BM has had one minor issue in 1.5 years, the Golf 2 minor issues in 2.5 years
none of them are "dogs" but i agree with you the S is very reliable. the owners of 09s might not agree though.
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From: Stanmore
I'm no statistician but that is tiny, in stats speak
say we're talking about 10 years worth of cars
maybe ( ) that's 10k cars
of which you might have data on 50
a reasonable sample? no, i dont think so. given things like people buying warranty due to prev breakdown
my S2000 has been the paragon of trouble free motoring but then our Vectra DTi was pretty bulletproof too, the BM has had one minor issue in 1.5 years, the Golf 2 minor issues in 2.5 years
none of them are "dogs" but i agree with you the S is very reliable. the owners of 09s might not agree though.
say we're talking about 10 years worth of cars
maybe (
) that's 10k carsof which you might have data on 50
a reasonable sample? no, i dont think so. given things like people buying warranty due to prev breakdown
my S2000 has been the paragon of trouble free motoring but then our Vectra DTi was pretty bulletproof too, the BM has had one minor issue in 1.5 years, the Golf 2 minor issues in 2.5 years
none of them are "dogs" but i agree with you the S is very reliable. the owners of 09s might not agree though.
For example, UK voting opinion polls usually consist of around sample sizes of around 2000. Total voting population is around 30 million.
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From: Chicken Town
Originally Posted by RattyS2k' timestamp='1387460334' post='22929993
How embarrassing. A tigra and Citroen are more reliable than the S.
I like the Boxster S, except for the fact that it sits too high in the arches looks like a pram, then again so does a standard S2000 ... good cars though and may well be my next should I decide to move on from the S2k.
my arch gap completely vanishes while I'm sat in the car, but then re-appears when I get out??
How can you explain this strange phenomenon
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 31,181
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From: Hertford
Originally Posted by Nottm_S2' timestamp='1387639892' post='22933317
I'm no statistician but that is tiny, in stats speak
say we're talking about 10 years worth of cars
maybe (
) that's 10k carsof which you might have data on 50
a reasonable sample? no, i dont think so. given things like people buying warranty due to prev breakdown
my S2000 has been the paragon of trouble free motoring but then our Vectra DTi was pretty bulletproof too, the BM has had one minor issue in 1.5 years, the Golf 2 minor issues in 2.5 years
none of them are "dogs" but i agree with you the S is very reliable. the owners of 09s might not agree though.
For example, UK voting opinion polls usually consist of around sample sizes of around 2000. Total voting population is around 30 million.
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From: Nottingham
My point is that if you have just 50 cars (small sample) and say just 5 are lemons it swings the stats
It's about how sure you can be the stats are worthwhile. Confidence levels based on population size, sample size etc. I did do A level stats but it was a long time ago
I don't doubt the overall inference that the S is more reliable, it's a simpler car and ime is very well put together. I reckon proportionally more S2s are tracked too but that's guesswork
It's about how sure you can be the stats are worthwhile. Confidence levels based on population size, sample size etc. I did do A level stats but it was a long time ago
I don't doubt the overall inference that the S is more reliable, it's a simpler car and ime is very well put together. I reckon proportionally more S2s are tracked too but that's guesswork
Joined: Mar 2001
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From: Hertford
Oh right - well, that's always gonna be the case and why standard deviation was invented.
But it's still less unrepresentative than one example.
I dunno about tracked, but I'd expect more S2000s are thrashed. And trashed...
Generally speaking, the empirical evidence at least concurs with others (J D Power et al.) and with anecdotal also.
Perhaps more noteworthy is the large variations between disparate models in the same family: MINIs are bag o' shite, whilst other BMWs are very good yet others very middling; specific problems with shared components (ie anything to do with cancer engines) can afflict an entire range. That is particularly the case with Vages, where remedial stuff like making coil packs, water pumps or tranny solenoids is beyond the wit of their suppliers.
Any Shed Rover is also a bag o'shite, as they are full of FREDs and made by Brummies with hammers.
But it's still less unrepresentative than one example.
I dunno about tracked, but I'd expect more S2000s are thrashed. And trashed...
Generally speaking, the empirical evidence at least concurs with others (J D Power et al.) and with anecdotal also.
Perhaps more noteworthy is the large variations between disparate models in the same family: MINIs are bag o' shite, whilst other BMWs are very good yet others very middling; specific problems with shared components (ie anything to do with cancer engines) can afflict an entire range. That is particularly the case with Vages, where remedial stuff like making coil packs, water pumps or tranny solenoids is beyond the wit of their suppliers.
Any Shed Rover is also a bag o'shite, as they are full of FREDs and made by Brummies with hammers.
