RtD Transparency
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 29,798
Likes: 1,257
From: Here, naturally.
To be honest, I'm tired of all the lies and cover ups. Ken was kind enough to show the cost breakdown which eased a lot of people's minds and put to bed any accusations of people pocketing money. But like I said, just tired of all the lies and cover ups. Everything is out in the open now and everyone can choose what they want to do.
If you want to register, go for it. If not, that's cool too. If you have the ability to use AAA, more power to you.
If you want to register, go for it. If not, that's cool too. If you have the ability to use AAA, more power to you.
Now I'm curious, what lies and cover up? If there were any profits (which there are not), they would be plowed into the next Dragon event. This nonsense has been going on for as long as I can remember. This is such a profitable undertaking that I've paid money out of my own pocket to cover costs that registration didn't pay for. This is so profitable that I spend numerous hours putting it together for that astronomical salary of $0.00. (and that pension plan is just .... oh...totally absent). When it stops being a labor of love for the car and the great people who attend, then I'll gladly dump it in the lap of someone else and then I can sit on the sidelines and b*tch and moan and complain and not support it because I know just how profitable it really is.
and after all of that...[/rant off] I hope to see you all at Fontana. Drive carefully on your way there.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,012
Likes: 2
From: nope
Originally Posted by Habitforming' timestamp='1427475380' post='23557043
[quote name='Ricky_Flowers_' timestamp='1427474674' post='23557022']
Get rid of the banquet, or make it optional. If it cannot be made optional, fine, but be prepared to continue dealing with this problem. This is pretty much my only rub with this whole deal. There is absolutely zero way I can justify eating undercooked chicken cutlets for 37 dollars, let alone paying for a +1 to eat this when I know I can ruin dinner for considerably less than what it's costing me here.
Seriously though, everything else is great, y'all are doin' a great job.
Get rid of the banquet, or make it optional. If it cannot be made optional, fine, but be prepared to continue dealing with this problem. This is pretty much my only rub with this whole deal. There is absolutely zero way I can justify eating undercooked chicken cutlets for 37 dollars, let alone paying for a +1 to eat this when I know I can ruin dinner for considerably less than what it's costing me here.
Seriously though, everything else is great, y'all are doin' a great job.
I agree we pay too much per person for what is typically sub-par food. But unfortunately our hands are tied as Fontana won't allow outside food vendors, and there is nowhere else nearby to get everyone together under one roof. Would everyone be willing to drive 1 hr to alcoa or 45 minutes to some large restaurant in Maryville for a saturday night get together?
Plus, probably about $10 of that is for the room, tables, chairs, projector, PA system, etc. So it's only $27 for undercooked chicken
Originally Posted by Ricky_Flowers_' timestamp='1427474674' post='23557022
Get rid of the banquet, or make it optional. If it cannot be made optional, fine, but be prepared to continue dealing with this problem. This is pretty much my only rub with this whole deal. There is absolutely zero way I can justify eating undercooked chicken cutlets for 37 dollars, let alone paying for a +1 to eat this when I know I can ruin dinner for considerably less than what it's costing me here.
Seriously though, everything else is great, y'all are doin' a great job.
Seriously though, everything else is great, y'all are doin' a great job.
As a matter of fact, there has never been anything resembling under-cooked chicken cutlets at any banquet that I have EVER planned. If I won't eat it, I damned sure won't order it for some of my best friends. Sure you can eat for less. McDonalds will be happy to give you flash frozen swill for $10 and change. I'm not saying that the food at Fontana is gourmet (even though I have had some really good meals there), but I certainly never heard any complaints about the food the last two events. (Well, Sharon was a bit perturbed that someone took her picture while she was eating cannoli 
)Bottom line, this is an issue that we probably ought to try and change for NEXT year, and that won't happen unless a discussion is opened.
[/quote]
Second this and,
I can probably get a projector for next year if someone can bring a blanket and some rope, we can fix this thing up!
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 653
Likes: 2
From: Home: South Carolina. Currently in Germany
Originally Posted by ForgetMyNameX07' timestamp='1427475483' post='23557046
To be honest, I'm tired of all the lies and cover ups. Ken was kind enough to show the cost breakdown which eased a lot of people's minds and put to bed any accusations of people pocketing money. But like I said, just tired of all the lies and cover ups. Everything is out in the open now and everyone can choose what they want to do.
If you want to register, go for it. If not, that's cool too. If you have the ability to use AAA, more power to you.
If you want to register, go for it. If not, that's cool too. If you have the ability to use AAA, more power to you.
Now I'm curious, what lies and cover up? If there were any profits (which there are not), they would be plowed into the next Dragon event. This nonsense has been going on for as long as I can remember. This is such a profitable undertaking that I've paid money out of my own pocket to cover costs that registration didn't pay for. This is so profitable that I spend numerous hours putting it together for that astronomical salary of $0.00. (and that pension plan is just .... oh...totally absent). When it stops being a labor of love for the car and the great people who attend, then I'll gladly dump it in the lap of someone else and then I can sit on the sidelines and b*tch and moan and complain and not support it because I know just how profitable it really is.
and after all of that...[/rant off] I hope to see you all at Fontana. Drive carefully on your way there.
There were grumblings that based upon the price compared to other events hosted in the area that money was being pocketed. You kindly showed your transparency in costs to the community and myself and I'm sure everyone else GREATLY appreciate that. Now, what gets at me is statements that you simply left out a word from your message to the CO's about cabin reservations. Your last line about not having a room contradicts saying that someone would only lose the discount rate.
With the info that was sent to me on this I'm going to be up front about it.
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 29,798
Likes: 1,257
From: Here, naturally.
I'm not trying to call anyone out, I'm not trying to ruffle any feathers, but there absolutely has to be a way to get the group together on Saturday night without renting out a banquet room. How about we set up a projection screen outside, trade stories, and barbecue in the afternoon when it's not so hot out? Burgers/hot dogs for everyone, bring your own beer, whatever. We could set up the speakers and projection equipment that would have otherwise been used in a banquet hall outdoors. If the idea all along was to say that we're having a "banquet" or whatever, fine, but if it's not then why don't we just move the festivities outside? Hell, I'll even help set up.
Also, the logo design: why don't we make it user-submitted? We have so much traffic on this sub-forum from the regulars that we could have a few design submissions and have a vote before the deadline to make the shirts and magnets. I feel like this will help with any transparency issues, and will definitely increase orders for RTD merchandise going forward. Again, I will happily submit a design and organize the voting process if it at all helps you moving forward. 
I think that's what we're doing.
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,244
Likes: 4
From: Northern KY
Originally Posted by Habitforming' timestamp='1427475380' post='23557043
[quote name='Ricky_Flowers_' timestamp='1427474674' post='23557022']
Get rid of the banquet, or make it optional. If it cannot be made optional, fine, but be prepared to continue dealing with this problem. This is pretty much my only rub with this whole deal. There is absolutely zero way I can justify eating undercooked chicken cutlets for 37 dollars, let alone paying for a +1 to eat this when I know I can ruin dinner for considerably less than what it's costing me here.
Seriously though, everything else is great, y'all are doin' a great job.
Get rid of the banquet, or make it optional. If it cannot be made optional, fine, but be prepared to continue dealing with this problem. This is pretty much my only rub with this whole deal. There is absolutely zero way I can justify eating undercooked chicken cutlets for 37 dollars, let alone paying for a +1 to eat this when I know I can ruin dinner for considerably less than what it's costing me here.
Seriously though, everything else is great, y'all are doin' a great job.
I agree we pay too much per person for what is typically sub-par food. But unfortunately our hands are tied as Fontana won't allow outside food vendors, and there is nowhere else nearby to get everyone together under one roof. Would everyone be willing to drive 1 hr to alcoa or 45 minutes to some large restaurant in Maryville for a saturday night get together?
Plus, probably about $10 of that is for the room, tables, chairs, projector, PA system, etc. So it's only $27 for undercooked chicken
Originally Posted by Ricky_Flowers_' timestamp='1427474674' post='23557022
Get rid of the banquet, or make it optional. If it cannot be made optional, fine, but be prepared to continue dealing with this problem. This is pretty much my only rub with this whole deal. There is absolutely zero way I can justify eating undercooked chicken cutlets for 37 dollars, let alone paying for a +1 to eat this when I know I can ruin dinner for considerably less than what it's costing me here.
Seriously though, everything else is great, y'all are doin' a great job.
Seriously though, everything else is great, y'all are doin' a great job.
As a matter of fact, there has never been anything resembling under-cooked chicken cutlets at any banquet that I have EVER planned. If I won't eat it, I damned sure won't order it for some of my best friends. Sure you can eat for less. McDonalds will be happy to give you flash frozen swill for $10 and change. I'm not saying that the food at Fontana is gourmet (even though I have had some really good meals there), but I certainly never heard any complaints about the food the last two events. (Well, Sharon was a bit perturbed that someone took her picture while she was eating cannoli )
I'm not trying to call anyone out, I'm not trying to ruffle any feathers, but there absolutely has to be a way to get the group together on Saturday night without renting out a banquet room. How about we set up a projection screen outside, trade stories, and barbecue in the afternoon when it's not so hot out? Burgers/hot dogs for everyone, bring your own beer, whatever. We could set up the speakers and projection equipment that would have otherwise been used in a banquet hall outdoors. If the idea all along was to say that we're having a "banquet" or whatever, fine, but if it's not then why don't we just move the festivities outside? Hell, I'll even help set up.
Also, the logo design: why don't we make it user-submitted? We have so much traffic on this sub-forum from the regulars that we could have a few design submissions and have a vote before the deadline to make the shirts and magnets. I feel like this will help with any transparency issues, and will definitely increase orders for RTD merchandise going forward. Again, I will happily submit a design and organize the voting process if it at all helps you moving forward.
Bottom line, this is an issue that we probably ought to try and change for NEXT year, and that won't happen unless a discussion is opened.
[/quote]
I'll have to nit-pick a bit here, because nothing as is easy as it first seems. And before I get going, let me reiterate that I am very open to a change in how we do things going forward, and I'm happy to have a mature, constructive conversation on the matter. (This is also a great time for me to mention I'm not really an organizer - I've just been attending for coming up on a decade and I try to help the organizers out where I am able).
I like to spend my daylight hours driving the great roads that we all visited for, so I'd rather not have an afternoon BBQ get together. In the past we tried to have lunch get-togethers, and they were somewhat poorly attended (and subsequently dropped for that reason).
If we want to have a big BBQ, we need a place to do it. Fontana is the only central location with capacity. This means we're renting the ballfield, their grill, and their hotdogs & hamburgers (which I have never found to be very tasty). Again, Fontana doesn't allow outside food on their property. If we find another location, this will involve finding parking for 150 cars, tables & chairs for 200-250 people, and enough cooking capacity and food to feed the above. Easily still $15-20 per person for this.
Where do the PA speakers come from? Unless someone can fit them in their S, this is another expense for renting the gear & having it delivered.
Very quickly these costs start to add up, to where we might be saving a net $15 or $20 total on the registration cost. I could be wrong, but for all the moaning & complaining (not just this time, as Ken says, this has been going on as long as the event has existed) - will a $15 savings really appease everyone? I can't see this much complaining over 3-4 gallons of gas.
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 653
Likes: 2
From: Home: South Carolina. Currently in Germany
I've said what I've needed to say and went ahead and addressed issues that came by my inbox. Ken, I appreciate what you and anyone associated with RtD has done over the last 2 years for the event and this community. I hope everyone has a great/safe time while on this trip.
Thanks again.
Thanks again.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,012
Likes: 2
From: nope
Originally Posted by Ricky_Flowers_' timestamp='1427476298' post='23557071
[quote name='Habitforming' timestamp='1427475380' post='23557043']
[quote name='Ricky_Flowers_' timestamp='1427474674' post='23557022']
Get rid of the banquet, or make it optional. If it cannot be made optional, fine, but be prepared to continue dealing with this problem. This is pretty much my only rub with this whole deal. There is absolutely zero way I can justify eating undercooked chicken cutlets for 37 dollars, let alone paying for a +1 to eat this when I know I can ruin dinner for considerably less than what it's costing me here.
Seriously though, everything else is great, y'all are doin' a great job.
[quote name='Ricky_Flowers_' timestamp='1427474674' post='23557022']
Get rid of the banquet, or make it optional. If it cannot be made optional, fine, but be prepared to continue dealing with this problem. This is pretty much my only rub with this whole deal. There is absolutely zero way I can justify eating undercooked chicken cutlets for 37 dollars, let alone paying for a +1 to eat this when I know I can ruin dinner for considerably less than what it's costing me here.
Seriously though, everything else is great, y'all are doin' a great job.
I agree we pay too much per person for what is typically sub-par food. But unfortunately our hands are tied as Fontana won't allow outside food vendors, and there is nowhere else nearby to get everyone together under one roof. Would everyone be willing to drive 1 hr to alcoa or 45 minutes to some large restaurant in Maryville for a saturday night get together?
Plus, probably about $10 of that is for the room, tables, chairs, projector, PA system, etc. So it's only $27 for undercooked chicken
Originally Posted by Ricky_Flowers_' timestamp='1427474674' post='23557022
Get rid of the banquet, or make it optional. If it cannot be made optional, fine, but be prepared to continue dealing with this problem. This is pretty much my only rub with this whole deal. There is absolutely zero way I can justify eating undercooked chicken cutlets for 37 dollars, let alone paying for a +1 to eat this when I know I can ruin dinner for considerably less than what it's costing me here.
Seriously though, everything else is great, y'all are doin' a great job.
Seriously though, everything else is great, y'all are doin' a great job.
As a matter of fact, there has never been anything resembling under-cooked chicken cutlets at any banquet that I have EVER planned. If I won't eat it, I damned sure won't order it for some of my best friends. Sure you can eat for less. McDonalds will be happy to give you flash frozen swill for $10 and change. I'm not saying that the food at Fontana is gourmet (even though I have had some really good meals there), but I certainly never heard any complaints about the food the last two events. (Well, Sharon was a bit perturbed that someone took her picture while she was eating cannoli )I'm not trying to call anyone out, I'm not trying to ruffle any feathers, but there absolutely has to be a way to get the group together on Saturday night without renting out a banquet room. How about we set up a projection screen outside, trade stories, and barbecue in the afternoon when it's not so hot out? Burgers/hot dogs for everyone, bring your own beer, whatever. We could set up the speakers and projection equipment that would have otherwise been used in a banquet hall outdoors. If the idea all along was to say that we're having a "banquet" or whatever, fine, but if it's not then why don't we just move the festivities outside? Hell, I'll even help set up.
Also, the logo design: why don't we make it user-submitted? We have so much traffic on this sub-forum from the regulars that we could have a few design submissions and have a vote before the deadline to make the shirts and magnets. I feel like this will help with any transparency issues, and will definitely increase orders for RTD merchandise going forward. Again, I will happily submit a design and organize the voting process if it at all helps you moving forward.
Bottom line, this is an issue that we probably ought to try and change for NEXT year, and that won't happen unless a discussion is opened.
[/quote]
I'll have to nit-pick a bit here, because nothing as is easy as it first seems. And before I get going, let me reiterate that I am very open to a change in how we do things going forward, and I'm happy to have a mature, constructive conversation on the matter. (This is also a great time for me to mention I'm not really an organizer - I've just been attending for coming up on a decade and I try to help the organizers out where I am able).
I like to spend my daylight hours driving the great roads that we all visited for, so I'd rather not have an afternoon BBQ get together. In the past we tried to have lunch get-togethers, and they were somewhat poorly attended (and subsequently dropped for that reason).
If we want to have a big BBQ, we need a place to do it. Fontana is the only central location with capacity. This means we're renting the ballfield, their grill, and their hotdogs & hamburgers (which I have never found to be very tasty). Again, Fontana doesn't allow outside food on their property. If we find another location, this will involve finding parking for 150 cars, tables & chairs for 200-250 people, and enough cooking capacity and food to feed the above. Easily still $15-20 per person for this.
Where do the PA speakers come from? Unless someone can fit them in their S, this is another expense for renting the gear & having it delivered.
Very quickly these costs start to add up, to where we might be saving a net $15 or $20 total on the registration cost. I could be wrong, but for all the moaning & complaining (not just this time, as Ken says, this has been going on as long as the event has existed) - will a $15 savings really appease everyone? I can't see this much complaining over 3-4 gallons of gas.
[/quote]
Could it be that the banquet (the setting and actual event, not the gathering of the people) is a part of the event that simply isn't enjoyed? I think we should be looking at alternatives instead of bitching at the event itself.
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,416
Likes: 11
From: Southern Ontario
My funnest S2000 event of the year is just a few days away and I paid my money and am coming to enjoy it. Can we stop wasting time on the cost of a fun weekend and get back to why the event exists... Its a LOT of fun. Period
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,012
Likes: 2
From: nope
Members are having a discussion on how to change the event to make it better for the group. Have any suggestions?
I've only heard great things about the ballpark meet up, everyone seems super pumped to go there. The only grumblings that I've heard are about the banquet, which just so happens to be 67% of the cost of the event. WTD/RTD is the event, the rest of the stuff is filler to get people together for a common purpose.
I've said we should consider 2 ball park nights. Who cares about having a PA and projector. If you really want to hear Ken speak, I can have him call me and let him speak through the bluetooth sound system in my car. You can hear him miles away...
Double ballpark night pros-
-Burgers and dogs (everyone knows what to expect with burgers and dogs, they literally can not be messed up with a mediocre cook)
-Considerably cheaper
-We're surrounded by our cars, we can actually take a peak from afar and see that they are still there. I do it in restaurants, can't do that in the banquet room
-If someone farts nearby, it's instantly wafted away into the atmosphere, you don't have to sit in the fart
.......
Cons-
-Potential for the R word
-Bug bites
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 8,227
Likes: 77
From: Cincinnati, Ohio
Agree with you...100% Dave...!!! Seems "MOST" complaints are coming from peeps with "LESS" than 5 Dragon events under their belt anyways ...!! The 'Ol timers will continue to come, regardless... We've been there more than 20 times...& a few "F'ckn" bucks are of "NO" concern, what-so-ever ..!!!... or undercooked chicken, or anything else you can dream up ...!!
The event is "NOT" about any of those petty matters... It's about a "GREAT" group of people getting together, for a "GREAT" time...& enjoying each other's friendships... "Hands-Down"....
