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S2000-specific Audio FAQ

by the s2ki.com electronics forum

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#General Topics (If you're new to car audio, start here)
#Shopping Online
#Brands
#Head Units
#Amplifiers
#Speakers
#Subwoofers
#Budget
#More Information
#Running Wires for your S2000 system
#S2000-specific Topics (If you've already got a firm grip of car audio and just have some S-specific questions, start here)

#General Topics
#Shopping Online
If I buy from an online store, will I get a manufacturer's warranty?
If you buy from an authorized dealer, then yes (Make sure the manufacturer recognizes them as an authorized dealer). If you buy from an unauthorized dealer, then no. However, many unauthorized places will give a one-year warranty with their products but make sure to ask around as some places will give as short as a two-week warranty.

What are some good online stores that carry car stereo equipment?
There is a site sponsor called Lucid Automotive that specializes in S2000 audio parts:



For general, retail level audio components, I pretty much shop exclusively at sounddomain.com and thezeb.com

They are authorized for nearly every brand they sell and they will pretty much pricematch any price you can find online short of Ebay.

For those of you who want to purchase online/catalog and save a little money, but still want full warranties -- Crutchfield.com is a great place to shop. Also, if you're a beginner installer, you may consider Crutchfield as well, since they generally provide excellent service, support, and installation kits. They also often have wiring kits for unusual cars.

What are some good online stores to pricematch?
ikesound.com
etronics.com
purecaraudio.com
onlinecarstereo.com

#Brands
What are some good brands of ...
There are so many "good" brands out there that it would take a long time to list. Furthermore, nobody is really going to be surprised that a $5000 McIntosh amp ends up being on the good list and I'll do you all a favor by staying away from the DIY stuff I've recently become obsessed with . I'll focus on retail level, high value (e.g. good "Bang-for-the-buck") components that I or close, real-life friends have had good experiences with.

...head units?
Alpine - alpine1.com
Clarion - clarion.com
Eclipse - eclipse-web.com
Kenwood - kenwoodusa.com
Pioneer - pioneerelections.com

[ruexp67 also recommends]
Sony - sony.com

...amplifiers?
Autotek - millenniumaudio.com/autotek.htm
Avionixx -
edesignaudio.com/miva/merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=EAMP
Hifonics - maxxsonics.com/hifonics
JBL - jbl.com
Planet Audio - planetaudiousa.com

[PJK3 also recommends]
JLAudio - www.jlaudio.com (overpriced, but people do like these amps, so they deserve a mention, and they are good gear.)
Phoenix Gold - www.phoenixgold.com
Kicker - www.kicker.com
Rockford Fosgate - www.rockfordfosgate.com

[ruexp67 also recommends]
MTX - mtxaudio.com

...speakers
Adire - adireAudio.com
CDT - www.cdtAudio.com
Crystal - crystalMobilesound.com
Focal - focal-america.com

[PJK3 also recommends]
Infinity - www.infinity.com
MB Quart - www.mbquart.com (am i actually saying this?? )
Boston Acoustics - www.bostonacoustics.com

...subwoofers?
Adire - adireAudio.com
Elemental Designs - eDesignAudio.com
JLAudio - www.jlaudio.com (I actually believe that the W7 series which sells for upwards of $700 is a good value. To me, "value" means that you can't get anything better for less money. As I have yet to hear a sub with better SQ, it fits the defintion)

[PJK3 also recomends]
Kicker - www.kicker.com
Rockford Fosgate - www.rockfordfosgate.com

#Head Units
How many watts does my head unit put out
Don't plan for more than 20 watts per channel--regardless of what the manufacturer says.

The previous mention of wattage measurements and all those that we have used in the FAQ are watts RMS.

Can I bridge the rear channels of my head unit to get more power into a single channel?
For the most part, no. However, there are some Pioneer decks that have this option and one Rockford Fosgate--however, if your spec sheet doesn't specifically say it's possible, then you probably can't.

#Amplifiers
How would the wiring look in an amp install?
Here's a great link:

http://forums.s2ki.com/forums/showthread.p...threadid=155135

What are the different classes of amps and what does that mean?
The most common types of amps that you will see in car audio are AB, D, and T. These are just ways of defining the method the amp uses in amplifing the signal. AB is a traditional analog method, while D and T are digital based amps. Class D amps are only useable for subwoofers. For more details and specifics, visit this section of the Basic Car Audio site:

eatel.net/~amptech/elecdisc/ampclass.htm

what are amp gains? how do they work? what do i do if my HU outputs 8 V pre-amp but my amp only accepts 4 V?

the area of gains and inputs are really a very commonly misunderstood subject.
______________________________________
for a moment, work a rough analogy w/ me... let's think about us being outside in the afternoon (average lighting) and going into a building w/o windows and closing the door behind us. your eyes receive an input from the room's lighting output.

if it's really dark in the room, you're going to be blind in the darkness. the input levels in the room are too low for you to get a good signal. (this is what happens if your gains are set too low. amp is set for a 4 V input and you've got .5 V outputs from the HU)

if it's really bright in the room, you're eyes are going to be overwhelmed when you walk in... you'll be blind, but from visual overload. the input levels are way high for you, and so your visual signal is distorted. (this is what happens if your gains are set too high. amp is set for .5 V and you've got 4 V outputs from the HU OR amp is set for 4 V inputs and you've got 8 or 16 V from the HU.)

if the room is at a similar light level as the outside, when you walk in everything looks just fine and you see great w/o any distortion or problems. your input levels and the output levels of the room match... (this is what happens when your gains are set right. amp set for 4 V and HU outputs 4 V.)

now, of course, your eyes will adjust - but your amp's input levels will not.

along the same lines - the signal output by your eyes to your brain didn't increase or decrease based on the lighting of the room... but your perception of the signal did.
________________________________________
amps generally work in the same way.

sorta.

in an amp's case though, if you set your gains low you can reduce the power output by the amp. BUT setting your amp's gain higher than optimal DOES NOT make more power. this is why you can adjust your gains down slightly and run power slightly above the speaker's rated power. it's because by dialing the gains down, you're actually reducing the amp's output power before the HU starts to clip. (you're losing max volume)


so, in reality can you get away w/ the 8 V preamp outputs on an eclipse head unit w/ an amp that doesn't support them? yes, but you're also distorting the signal before you normally would when the HU's output voltage exceeds the amp's rated input voltage. it doesn't make the amp run cooler or make more power. the best thing to do in that case would be to install some signal attenuators to get your output signal to match up w/ the amp's input range... is it necessary? no...
generally speaking -- amp gains are not volume knobs... (there are exceptions... think Jensen etc.) turning the gain down means you're making the amp less sensitive. turning the gain up means you're making it more sensitive... sensitive to what? the input Voltage.

here's a detailed page all about amplifier gains and setting them: http://www.bcae1.com/gaincon2.htm
please take a few minutes to read this page as it is way enlightening, and not horribly technical. take special note of the shockwave / flash demo at the bottom.

note the first paragraph...
quoting myself from this thread: http://forums.s2ki.com/forums/showthread.p...threadid=203883

______________________________________
what's the best way to set the gains on my amp? how do i set the gains on my amp?

the best way to set the gains on your amp is to use an oscilliscope, a spectrum analyzer, and test tones and use the method found here:
http://www.bcae1.com/settinggainswithscope.htm
a much more practical and still very good way to set gains is to do this:
taken and modified from Crutchfield's install advisor at: http://www.crutchfieldadvisor.com/S-m9SNHU...ifiers_faq.html

-Setting the "gain" or input sensitivity control is an important adjustment common to all amplifier installations. Proper gain setting helps reduce noise and distortion and allows for the widest possible dynamic range. Here's how to do it:

1. Turn your amplifier's input level controls all the way down.

2. Choose a CD to tune with and put it the player. You will want to use a very clear musical source, but one that covers a full range of bass, midrange, and treble. Distorted types of music are a very poor selection, as it will confuse your ears. Turn up your receiver's volume control. You'll begin to hear music at faint levels. (Audiophiles and sound competitors may want to use a dedicated test disc.)

3. Carefully listen for clipping distortion from the preamp of the Head Unit. Clipping distortion will sound like a blurring of the sound, not a mechanical popping or distortion, and it can be difficult to detect, so listen carefully. When you start hearing distortion, lower your receiver's volume control until the distortion disappears. This should be approximately 75% of max volume. (Multiply the max volume number by .75 to confirm this value.) There will be a few exceptions to the 75% rule, but there will be close to 1 in 1,000 odds. Consider this 75% number to be your new 'Max Volume" setting, as turning up the stereo above this level will only gain you distortion, but no further 'volume.'

4. At this point, you have as much signal as possible passing from your receiver into your amp. (This gives you maximum signal-to-noise ratio, so you'll enjoy clean sound and your system will be less prone to engine noise problems).

5. Now begin adjusting your amp's input gain. Turn the input level controls up until the system is as loud as you can stand it or until you begin hearing distortion

 

b0mbrman,
Great Work, I made it a note so it's easy to find.

Thanks
PAS2KNut

 

b0mbrman -- EXCELLENT!

i had a mind to try and do something like this or get it done, but i just never seemed to be able to get rolling on it... fantastic job!

i love it... it seems like we're CONSTANTLY being hit by the same questions over and over again... hopefully this will help and field a lot of them in advance.



here are some of my own suggestions, comments, etc. that i would also consider good information along with the main FAQ:

(editing and deleting based upon b-man having moved the information up into the main FAQ)

*lots deleted*

edit: changed to read more like a FAQ and less like a message to b0mbrman....

 

Didn't read through the whole thing yet (still working on the footwell lights), but I would add in the PAC SWI-X unit for dash controls. It's not a favorate of everyone, but it's still a very valid option that can be significantly cheaper than Lucid's or Qube's when purchased at the right places.

 

Excellent, I'll work on adding those things in...as this is stuck at the top, I'll remove my little introduction on how it all got started because new users aren't gonna care about that...

Also, for all the brands, what I'd like to make is a section where people list a couple components they especially like...maybe in a couple difference price ranges...maybe have two equal brands or a general brand and a budget brand in parentheses

The section would look something like this:

User Name * short profile * decks * amps - speakers * subs
b0mbrman * all music * Alpine, Eclipse * Autotek, JBL * Dynaudio, Adire * Adire, Elemental Designs
Billy2k * 50, pure SPL * Alpine (Pioneer) - RF (Profile) - Image Dynamics - Kicker

Something like that...



[Removed intro] Everything seemed to be going so well yesterday that I just let my Joes go home after lunch (You'd be surprised how little anyone wants to act up the day before a 4-day weekend )

Anyhow, since I didn't feel like leaving, I started up on this FAQ...and didn't stop. This isn't all-inclusive but it will answer many of the same questions we see every other day.

Oh, and please let me know if anything's wrong or if anything needs to be added. I'm nowhere near an expert (Heck, I'm nowhere near even being an intermediate or a novice ) so feel free to tell me I'm way off base. I'm just a guy who's done three installs on my S.

A lot of this stuff has to do with opinion even though I tried to keep it as fact-based as possible.

I'm especially curious as to what the actual experts think, i.e. ws2000, Modifry, WLaurent, Lucid, PJK3, MacGyver and the like.

Oh, and if I "borrowed" your information without knowing it, let me know that too .

And so, without further ado:

 

This is the best thread in the electronics forum, I'll refer all my potential customers here.

Question, have you personally experienced phasing problems with rear speakers? If so, can it be corrected?

 

Wow, thanks Yes I have sir As a consequence, my beater no longer has rears

I think the best test for phasing is instrument solos because you have a mental reference. You know how a guitar sounds and how a bass sounds and you can tell when the timbre is off when you can't tell them apart

As for how best to minimize it, keep the rears out of the acoustic sweet spot by LPing them under 500 Hz. I think a lot of what people like about rears is the midbass reinforcement, that is, added "warmth."

I'd probably LP them around 200 Hz because that's where their fronts are starting to roll off.

If you've got an RTA lying around (Who doesn't? ) and rears instaled, you could test it out. Start with fronts just playing and get a reading. Then fade in the rears until it sounds "right."

You'll more than likely find you're midbass heavy.

 

editing my above comments to read less like a message and more like a FAQ... hopefully, this will save b0mbr some effort.

i'll also try to add brand commentary a bit later when i have a chance to think it out...

 

What about Marks2002 S-Pods as an option.

Does no one but me like Sony HUs or MTX amps?

 

Great job bombrman! it's nice to have a S2000 specific audio equipment info center

I jsut have a 2 channel amp and want to power my fronts but want to add rear speakers. Do you think they'll be a big notice, performance difference (of course taking into consideration that rear will be less turned up) that i sould buy another 2 channel amp?