you can always under cut them. i live in cali and flew to arizona to purchase my car. i had an 2002 all red interior s2000 i paid like 26,000 out the door and it had 45,000 miles on it. i got jewed because it was my first real expnsive car. i totalled it, found the same car in AZ, with less miles, 18,500 out the door including taxes when i brought it back to cali. the dealer even paid my plain ticket and hotel room. you can find good deals as long as youre patient.