i love the insight. definitely a good addition to the community.

 

^ I agree, glad to have someone like seeker97 on here - very concise and direct, a pleasure to read your first 2 posts on here sir.

I grew up in German sportscars and luxury cars (my Dad was very fortunate then) and I have had various friends, girlfriends, and relatives that have owned modern German cars from enthusiests to someone who wants a stylish car and nothing more and I can't hink of one of them that hasn't had to cough up lots of $$$$ for some of the most rediculous defects, problems the dealer didn't even know what to do with, and just flat out shameful "give me more money now while I have you here to keep your car running" policy.

I honostly don't know what compells anyone to go back to them. The image is everything marketing aproach they hav implemented in the US has worked to such a degree that people think "its a Mercedes, of course an oil change is $280 so I better pay it". And if people are lining up to pay it I doubt the mfr.'s will change there approach to car building.

I am partial to the S2000 and NSX as my own "practical" sports cars and see no reason to buy a similar level of performance with pathetic reliability standards and sorely inflated maintenance and entrance cost from a German sports car maker.

 

Great read and comparison.

 

I've never owned a Boxter but have heard so many horror stories about the build quality and engine failures doing research on the car for friends/family.

I came from the a RX-8 and agree the 2 cars are so fun to drive.

oh and technically you still own a mid-engine car

 

wow I must say, thats a great review thanks for taking the time to write it out!

I feel the same way about the boxer, as my father owned one.

He fell victim to the engine failure, the DAY of selling the car. He took it for one last drive and didnt make it out of the street, the car died and the buyer drove by and saw it off the side of the road in disbelief.

I had no idea this is an actual common problem. My and my father just thought it was a one in a million thing and he ended up paying for an engine rebuild. Ill have to let him know that its much, much more common that we ever thought.

 

Great write ups guys! man i luv this car!
As for me, this is the last porsche i ever loved (and i want one so bad!! someday...)



After this model (1995-1998) porsche just changed somehow, the 911 got too mainstream, too generic, not classically pretty anymore...

 

Wow great write-up Seeker97, and I especially like how it evoked other personal experiences throughout these 3 pages of posts. Your writing is very descriptive, concise, and clear = me gusta mucho. It's always a pleasure welcoming new members like yourself aboard here who have a lot more wisdom and insight into the automotive world than the majority of us, as most of us are probably under 30 years old.

I do have to agree that what European companies are cutting in costs of their vehicles, they are adding to marketing and branding the "high" image of their cars. I previously owned a 2004 BMW E46 M3 and once it ran out of warranty I was honestly scared for my life, staring at the gauges praying to anything that the check engine light did not come on. The car was great in all-around performance, luxury, and reliability, but maintining the car is just a bit too much.

Many people here grew up always wanting a BMW or MB and when they could finally afford one, they are crap, or at least shoddier than the ones produced when they were actually growing up. It seems like many people dodge the "Honda, Nissan, and Toyota" badge, especially with sports cars, because it's not American or resembles quality cars at low prices, and not necessary luxury or speed. Most people could care less about the design, engine, chassis, structure, etc. of a car as long as it has "more than 4 cylinders" or a "turbo" slapped on it with "leather seats" and a Bavarian Motor Works or Mercedes-Benz badge ornately appointed on the hood and trunk. Do they know the history or engineering behind their car? Chances are, no. "Oh but it has 330 hp, yours only has 237, that's so slow! Hp is all that matters, oh, and my car has twin turbos!" I don't bother responding to these types of people, they obviously don't know anything about cars. I hate when people own cars and pretend they are enthusiasts and know-it-alls and don't even know whether their 3-series BMW is an E36, E46, E90, E92, etc. Some people sicken me, ugh!

Don't get me wrong though, I would love to own the new E92 M3 or E92 335 or even an AMG series, but I can't justify the cost with the car you get. If I had enough money where it wasn't a problem, sure I'd buy it, but considering I'm only 22 years old, I'm looking for more bang-for-the-buck options, and the S2000 fits that profile perfectly.

Even if I did have that much money, I would probably opt out for a 2010 Nissan GT-R. It's sad to see how the GT-R is ragged on in the various european forums and questioned in performance despite it's numerous reviews, track times, trials, etc. by various companies and magazines. I also hate how they attack it because its a "Nissan", which is their excuse for paying way too much for their european car. To quote some posts I've seen, "Yea it's a great performing car, but it's still a Nissan." Can't take the heat that Nissan aimed the car to push the limits of the Porsche 997 Turbo at a much lower price?! (Considering this less the current mark-ups). If I wanted solely image and looks, I would go with the Audi R8, but I've not heard good things about Audi's reliability.

All in all I think it's sad how image is becoming everything, especially in the automotive industry. The various European car manufacturers need to go back to their roots. The famous Porche's of the 80's and 90's and the renowned E30 M3, all truly street legal race cars built for the drivers, by the drivers. It's a tough market and the economy is not in exactly the greatest shape, but quality/price wins out in the long run. Simple ratio that seems to have been lost down the line...

To conclude, thanks Seeker97 for giving me a chance to rant about this and hope you enjoy your S2000 as much as the rest of us here. It's a unique car and the only one of it's kind. A sports car + Honda's reliability and engineering + $32,000 new or sub $20,000's used = perfect in my book.

 

this is the best thread i have read on these forums so far. mature and well thought out (some even expert) arguments expressed eloquently and with respect for other opinions. truly this forum at it's best. thank you to everyone who has contributed.

 

I am slightly addicted to cars and at the age of 29 have owned 7 already. I have had my s2 since 2006. There is nothing - in my financial means - that i can realistically think about owning besides the s because i know i wouldn't enjoy it as much.

It was down to the s2000, 85-89 911 or a boxster when i was able to afford a second car besides my utility vehicle. I knew that i couldn't take on the purchase of a "fun" car along with high maint. expense. So i went with the "safe" route of the s2. But there is no downside with this car. it is close to the visceral feel of an elise with relative low maintenance of a corolla.

Even in my typical search to see other cars that are exciting and different - coopers, elises, 911's. All i can think about is getting a new s2000 to replace my 2004 so that i can have it longer. With what honda is talking about in the future i'm not sure if it going to capture what the s2000 is.

 

Wow seeker, your experience is so polar opposite of mine w/ my '07 Cayman S that it's hard to believe they're based on the same platform or even come from the same manufacturer! Either way, welcome to the sight and congrats on discovering an awesome sports car.

Before I address your issues w/ my experiences, I'll say that I thoroughly enjoyed my 2 S2000's, and would enjoy having one again. But there was obviously something special about the Cayman S that influence me to spend over $30K to trade, and my love for the Cayman hasn't diminished a bit since buying it.

Handling - the S feels like it darts into corners faster due to its quicker steering ratio, but at the expense of steering feel and stability. The Cayman has amazing grip and stability, and it makes me feel like a better driver on the track. Even better, it offers a really good ride for the high handling limits.

Brakes - no comparison, the Porsche's hold up well to track abuse as delivered off the showroom floor. The mid-engine config results in less brake dive.

Profit maximization - all well-run public companies try to do this, since shareholders should always be managements' #1 constituent. Companies can only price to what the market will bear. Many new Porsches command markups, S2000's are steeply discounted.

RMS leak - I'm under the impression that it primarily afflicted the 986. I'm a frequent Cayman Club visitor, and I'm not aware of any Caymans w/ leakiing RMS.

Fragility - the Cayman feels MUCH more solid and well-built. The leather has held up far better than it did in my old S2000's (still looks new after 13K miles), no mechanical or eletrical issues, though I can't comment on soft-top issues (but note that S2000 tops aren't immune from wear holes).

Can't see the engine - OK w/ me, I appreciate the extra storage space on top of it. The in-dash oil level guage works fine, and is more convenient. You can remove the top and front panels if that's important, and clear covers are avaialble as well.

Maintenance - let's review Porsche's maintenance schedule @ http://www.porsche.com/filestore.aspx/defa...iletype=default Your Boxster S requires little more than an oil change in the first 2 years or 20K miles. They also recommend a brake fluid change at that time, but that's no different than any other high performance car. I've found the maint. schedule much less rigorous than for the S2000 or any other car I've owned. First oil change was $200, but I'd do it myself for much less if it bothered me that much. Read up on Moss Magnuson Warranty Act, you can inspect it, change oil, etc. yourself if you're up to it w/o needing to fear warranty repurcussions.

Overall performance - no comparison, though you had slightly less HP. The difference is even greater in the real world than at the track, since you don't need to worry near as much about being in VTEC range - it has power/tq. everywhere.

Quality - Porsche has topped JD Power's initial quality ratings in '06, '07, and '08, and has been the highest ranking nameplate in their APPEAL study for 3 consecutive years. I know the Cayman/Boxster have ranked 1st recently in their class, I'm just too lazy to look that up.

http://www.jdpower.com/autos/ratings/quali...ge-#page-anchor

I won't even go into cargo space, comfort, or intangibles like engine sound, control feel, etc. That said, the S2000 is w/o a doubt a better bang for your buck! Like all thinks, the law of diminishing marginal returns as prices rise applies. Whether the extra outlay is worth it can only be determined by each ind. buyer based on his/her priorities, preferences, and financial resources.

I just bought a Miata as a cheap track car, and considered S2000's but they were significantly more to buy operate - so don't think I'm one of those Porsche "pricks" who can't appreciate other cars! (my ins. coverage doesn't apply at the track, so I wanted something semi-disposable rather than risk the Cayman's full value should something bad happen). I suspect I'll own another S2000 at some point, but my love affair w/ Porsche is still going strong, and I expect to keep the CS as long as ownership costs don't go up too significantly.