J's 300PS S2000
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From: Nashville,Tn
Mines I think your setup is great and on and you know alot but to Put down J's as you are is insane. I would take there word over mostly anyone. They have more track time in there cars with more engine testing than any of us do. Not to say they are always right but things are dont for a reason. If there was a better way to do it then Im sure they would be on it.
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From: Nashville,Tn
I do feel as well that its ok to rev the 2.2L upto 9000 rpms. But to be real, you rev till your power falls off. So what good is 20 Billion rpms if you can only use 8500 rpms then power falls off. The big factor is how you plan on using the car. The J's team uses AP1 Cams on there F22C motor. The 2.5L kits seem to rev around 9000. Is that a good thing( I dont think so) but other may disagree. The 2.7L stroker coming out they wana rev above 9000. Is that smart ( I dont think so). Who gives a rats arss about low end torque in a way. When I am racing my rpm point is well over 6500 most of the time.. Is your car going to be a street machine or a track car. I went with a 2.1L for a reason as I would like to rev higher than 9000 rpm. and that I would be using that power band more than the lower end.The only problem is there isnt a cam out there that will benifit from that increase in rpm. I guess in there end everyone is gona do it there own way and the results will show what the result is. I just wish we hade more tracks here that we could test the results on.
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From: Smithtown, NY
Originally Posted by ERL_S2000,Mar 4 2007, 09:58 AM
Mines I think your setup is great and on and you know alot but to Put down J's as you are is insane. I would take there word over mostly anyone. They have more track time in there cars with more engine testing than any of us do. Not to say they are always right but things are dont for a reason. If there was a better way to do it then Im sure they would be on it.
Also,
Absolutely right on your following post, spin it till it stops making power, or something breaks, whichever comes first.
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From: Nashville,Tn
Its kinda the battle within us all. What company to use and how much do we do ourself. I def learned alot building the first motor and working with ERL and Alaniz. ERL did a awsome job and there Short block are amazing. The machine shop they use is state of the art and there service is Excellent. As far as Alaniz I cant say I would choose him again. Just too much to say but I think I have found someone better to do the heads. If very complicated. To really improve the head you must use a good flowbench and be a very good airflow engineer. Different valve cuts and Cumbustion chamber work will effect flow as differdnt lifts greatly.
The J's motor seems to produce 300hp using very a very simple and balanced setup. I Sell J's Racing parts and even at my cost its hard to do. The customer support I feel would be the main issue. The one thing they do and have figured out is the F20 head. Alot of there power comes from the valve job they do. They must have found the correct cuts and shapes in the head to improve flow and not hurt it at points.
I think all I want is a solid 250-275whp NA setup with a good powerband and a setups that can withstand high rpm abuse at the track.
The J's motor seems to produce 300hp using very a very simple and balanced setup. I Sell J's Racing parts and even at my cost its hard to do. The customer support I feel would be the main issue. The one thing they do and have figured out is the F20 head. Alot of there power comes from the valve job they do. They must have found the correct cuts and shapes in the head to improve flow and not hurt it at points.
I think all I want is a solid 250-275whp NA setup with a good powerband and a setups that can withstand high rpm abuse at the track.
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,149
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From: Raleigh, NC
everyone simply Assumes that the J's time attack car's engine blew because it was being revved to 9k. Anyone who speaks japanese care to translate the video and say exactly for sure what happened?
For all we know the engine could have had oil starvation or simply a part failure. It happens.
For all we know the engine could have had oil starvation or simply a part failure. It happens.
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,394
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From: Smithtown, NY
Its kinda the battle within us all. What company to use and how much do we do ourself. I def learned alot building the first motor and working with ERL and Alaniz. ERL did a awsome job and there Short block are amazing. The machine shop they use is state of the art and there service is Excellent. As far as Alaniz I cant say I would choose him again. Just too much to say but I think I have found someone better to do the heads. If very complicated. To really improve the head you must use a good flowbench and be a very good airflow engineer. Different valve cuts and Cumbustion chamber work will effect flow as differdnt lifts greatly.
The J's motor seems to produce 300hp using very a very simple and balanced setup. I Sell J's Racing parts and even at my cost its hard to do. The customer support I feel would be the main issue. The one thing they do and have figured out is the F20 head. Alot of there power comes from the valve job they do. They must have found the correct cuts and shapes in the head to improve flow and not hurt it at points.
I think all I want is a solid 250-275whp NA setup with a good powerband and a setups that can withstand high rpm abuse at the track.
The J's motor seems to produce 300hp using very a very simple and balanced setup. I Sell J's Racing parts and even at my cost its hard to do. The customer support I feel would be the main issue. The one thing they do and have figured out is the F20 head. Alot of there power comes from the valve job they do. They must have found the correct cuts and shapes in the head to improve flow and not hurt it at points.
I think all I want is a solid 250-275whp NA setup with a good powerband and a setups that can withstand high rpm abuse at the track.
Hell, that rail dragster that runs 161mph in the 8s with an F20C is making 390hp and it is running SMALLER valves then stock. This engine was built in Texas by Endyn. The more you learn about cylinder heads the less you realize you actually know or understand.
This is the cylinder head of the NEW build that will likely break 400hp NA on 2.09 Liters. The chambers are SMALLER then stock as are the valves. Notice the berillium valve seats. The material alone is worth several thousand dollars and only found in Prostock engines, Indy car engines and F1 engines. Oh yeah and the Saleen S7.
For those that may not know, the PCX-1 is the F20C head.
This head was fabricated and CNC ported entirely in our shop. We are using valves that are 2mm smaller on the intake, and 1mm smaller on the exhaust, and out-flowing the old head by as much as 35cfm. At 42cc's, the chamber volume is also down 9cc's from the previous head. We've also made the pistons for the engine. I'll have the rods finished Monday. Block-work is also complete.
Our goal is to increase mid-range power without sacrificing any on top. Best estimate on crank power before was 390HP.
I designed the combination to reduce flow-through at overlap. We've seen large power increases on Honda's since we've begun working in this direction. This practice has also reduced air consumption in dyno testing and we've also been able to run with less fuel. So, we're making more power while consuming less air and fuel because there's less mixture heading out the exhaust at overlap. The chamber/piston design also have to be credited for netting a quicker and more efficient burn.
Our turbo K series heads have chambers that are identical to the pictured piece too. The chamber configuration makes the flow think it's still captured by the port as it enters the cylinder (pressure recovery), which increases the flow rate over anything possible with a stock chamber design.
Today we do more K series heads than B series....
-Endyn
Our goal is to increase mid-range power without sacrificing any on top. Best estimate on crank power before was 390HP.
I designed the combination to reduce flow-through at overlap. We've seen large power increases on Honda's since we've begun working in this direction. This practice has also reduced air consumption in dyno testing and we've also been able to run with less fuel. So, we're making more power while consuming less air and fuel because there's less mixture heading out the exhaust at overlap. The chamber/piston design also have to be credited for netting a quicker and more efficient burn.
Our turbo K series heads have chambers that are identical to the pictured piece too. The chamber configuration makes the flow think it's still captured by the port as it enters the cylinder (pressure recovery), which increases the flow rate over anything possible with a stock chamber design.
Today we do more K series heads than B series....
-Endyn
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From: Nashville,Tn
I am not sayingh J's racing is god and knows everything. I feel tho they have a good solid product and they do there research. Can better ways be found? I should hope so. Very inerested head work done in the previous post. I have had bad experiances with people that do head work. I think I have now found someone that I can deal with and has very good credits by some of my other vendors such as ERL. My own quest is to learn as much about the F series motors and what works well and what doesnt. This first engine setup has been a great learning experiance. It seems you know alot of people that understand the F and K series motors. Thanks for the info and hopefully with all of us trying new tihngs and overall good thing will come from it. A good proven setup for all bugets and needs.
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Joined: Apr 2005
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From: Smithtown, NY
Originally Posted by ERL_S2000,Mar 5 2007, 11:58 AM
I am not sayingh J's racing is god and knows everything. I feel tho they have a good solid product and they do there research. Can better ways be found? I should hope so. Very inerested head work done in the previous post. I have had bad experiances with people that do head work. I think I have now found someone that I can deal with and has very good credits by some of my other vendors such as ERL. My own quest is to learn as much about the F series motors and what works well and what doesnt. This first engine setup has been a great learning experiance. It seems you know alot of people that understand the F and K series motors. Thanks for the info and hopefully with all of us trying new tihngs and overall good thing will come from it. A good proven setup for all bugets and needs.
Absolutely. It will be a sad day when people stop trying to improve upon and simple except. If you want it bad enough and are willing to think beyond exisitng popular theory, you will will always be able to find more horsepower.
