The Tuner Market is Dead
09-11-2007, 07:55 AM
#12
Former Sponsor
Originally Posted by Silver9k,Sep 11 2007, 07:41 AM
I haven't read everything yet. But I just want to point out that a big brake kit often does little for those tracking their car. The stock brakes are very compitent. Going to endless brakes which don't offer ABS typically doesn't make it much faster if at all.
And for the $2000 exhausts out there...cars get beat up on the track, why would an enthusiast want a $2000 exhaust that is just going to get trashed, an extra 2hp isn't that big of a deal but 20 more track days certainly sounds fun.
Or how about the crazy CF intakes...they don't even add that much power, they are more for the bling factor then anything else. An enthusiast will not see the purpose in putting over 1000 towards an intake that gives very little return.
I'd agree that the "tuner" market is very much show car oriented. The high prices and small return over "inferior" products isn't worth it to an enthusiast. And its not because they want the "look" its because they are looking at return for money spent, and the fact that they will actually be using what they buy and understand that it wont last forever (regardless of it being JDM or not).
After I come back and read through this I throw in my other penny.
And for the $2000 exhausts out there...cars get beat up on the track, why would an enthusiast want a $2000 exhaust that is just going to get trashed, an extra 2hp isn't that big of a deal but 20 more track days certainly sounds fun.
Or how about the crazy CF intakes...they don't even add that much power, they are more for the bling factor then anything else. An enthusiast will not see the purpose in putting over 1000 towards an intake that gives very little return.
I'd agree that the "tuner" market is very much show car oriented. The high prices and small return over "inferior" products isn't worth it to an enthusiast. And its not because they want the "look" its because they are looking at return for money spent, and the fact that they will actually be using what they buy and understand that it wont last forever (regardless of it being JDM or not).
After I come back and read through this I throw in my other penny.
And as far as brake kits not working? Will they make you stop shorter, likely not. Will they last longer without overheating? YES. Will my front wheel bearings likely last longer than if i had used the oem iron rotors that retain more heat? YES. There are other benefits, but just making a small pointRegarding 2k exhausts. Besides the 2hp, there is often a decent wieght savings too. I track my cars quite frequently, and have yet to have my car get beat up, though it can happen.
I havent tested it myself, but id be willing to bet my blingin CF intake chamber setup records more consistant intake air temps than an oem box setup.
Everyone picks and chooses their paths ane compromises, and they are all entitled to. Alot of it is budget it based, or " best bang for buck " I'd like to think most good and orginal companies try to come up with the " best quality bang for buck "
09-11-2007, 08:03 AM
#13
Former Sponsor
Originally Posted by North Star,Sep 11 2007, 07:43 AM
This is another factor. What would one consider entry level? Like my example of the Bilstein CO's. I chose to use that comparison because it relates to the function and form I am looking for, for mostly street use.
I know I could find a cheap set of CO's starting from about $600 to get the look, but that just doesn't sit right with my ideals for my S.
I know I could find a cheap set of CO's starting from about $600 to get the look, but that just doesn't sit right with my ideals for my S.
09-11-2007, 08:15 AM
#14
Registered User
Originally Posted by J's Racing,Sep 11 2007, 08:03 AM
well, i guess the bilsteins can be "entry level". I guess that term sometimes can be negative. An entry level product can sometimes be so skimped on, its junk, like entry level Tein, IMO. Hope that helps?
I don't consider entry level to be a bad thing, but more of a standard or novice set.
09-11-2007, 08:30 AM
#15
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I think there needs to be the whole concept of "real racing"(Pro- Semi Pro) vs. the monthly warrior. There is no need for a person with a middle class income to spend 4K on brakes if there are no going to go beat the crap out of the car every week. If it is just a person who drives a car normal and then races once a month there is no reason for the insanely priced items. In addition to this, I think another major problem is the fact that just about anybody can get a dealers license now which doesn
09-11-2007, 08:33 AM
#16
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Greg, well said.
One point that is overlooked is how the "masses" get influenced by the parts. The media (magazines and publications) should also be a part of helping to resolve the issue rather than taking in every adverstising dollar they can. They are just as guilty. Articles in the magazines will talk about quality high end parts used on a car and then you turn the page and there is a Rota ad...
Like Greg said as a vendor or supplier you could easily offer every part under the sun. It is a constat struggle between doing what you think is right(what parts you choose to offer) and still trying to generate some income.
I could go on and on too..
One point that is overlooked is how the "masses" get influenced by the parts. The media (magazines and publications) should also be a part of helping to resolve the issue rather than taking in every adverstising dollar they can. They are just as guilty. Articles in the magazines will talk about quality high end parts used on a car and then you turn the page and there is a Rota ad...
Like Greg said as a vendor or supplier you could easily offer every part under the sun. It is a constat struggle between doing what you think is right(what parts you choose to offer) and still trying to generate some income.
I could go on and on too..
09-11-2007, 08:42 AM
#17
Registered User
Originally Posted by zbrewha863,Sep 11 2007, 07:28 AM
I agree with you to a certain point, I am not saying that unless you buy the absolute highest-quality product you suck at life, I realize that different consumers have different needs and will judge products accordingly.
I view that in light of the industry though; it started as people making parts at home to make their cars faster, then some people sought out the guys (or girls, if there were any back then racing and winning enough) who had the fastest cars and commissioned them to make the same parts for their own cars. The entire industry was born on a basis of necessity as it relates to function (in my view), in my mind the people who are buying the "inferior" products do so in order to, as you said, "get the look," but are in actuality selling out in order to imitate something that has garnered actual respect by themselves or someone else.
If your car is the one in your sig, and the parts are authentic, then I would think to some degree you would understand the idea of quality over price.
I really do not think that it has anything to do with the actual use of the parts as justifying imitating "the look." If I go buy a knockoff hardtop, Megan coilovers and exhaust, and take my car to the track with all those parts on, there is a good chance that I will garner more respect than the guy with authentic parts who makes his car a trailer queen or even a dyno queen, but in that case I'm garnering my respect from my actions, not from my parts. Inexpensive parts that have a good use and good quality make sense, that is the basic idea of market economies and even suppliers to top race teams understand that, but there is a line that more people in this country have crossed relative to those worldwide that divides a "form follows function" idea (as you seem to be espousing in your last paragraph) in favor of a "get the look" or "get the sound" ideology (as you seem to be espousing in your first couple paragraphs). Two completely different things.
I view that in light of the industry though; it started as people making parts at home to make their cars faster, then some people sought out the guys (or girls, if there were any back then racing and winning enough) who had the fastest cars and commissioned them to make the same parts for their own cars. The entire industry was born on a basis of necessity as it relates to function (in my view), in my mind the people who are buying the "inferior" products do so in order to, as you said, "get the look," but are in actuality selling out in order to imitate something that has garnered actual respect by themselves or someone else.
If your car is the one in your sig, and the parts are authentic, then I would think to some degree you would understand the idea of quality over price.
I really do not think that it has anything to do with the actual use of the parts as justifying imitating "the look." If I go buy a knockoff hardtop, Megan coilovers and exhaust, and take my car to the track with all those parts on, there is a good chance that I will garner more respect than the guy with authentic parts who makes his car a trailer queen or even a dyno queen, but in that case I'm garnering my respect from my actions, not from my parts. Inexpensive parts that have a good use and good quality make sense, that is the basic idea of market economies and even suppliers to top race teams understand that, but there is a line that more people in this country have crossed relative to those worldwide that divides a "form follows function" idea (as you seem to be espousing in your last paragraph) in favor of a "get the look" or "get the sound" ideology (as you seem to be espousing in your first couple paragraphs). Two completely different things.
I have minimal mods on my S, J's front half spoiler is the most major thing right now. I have D2 coilovers sitting in my living room waiting to be installed. I know it's not JDM but I had them on my GSR a few years ago and I loved them, my friend is the east coast distributor and I got them for a great price. My WedSport TC105N's came in today and my Hankook z212's come in tomorrow so I'll get those on this week.
Other than that stuff I'm not changing anything performance wise until I can afford to do so in a proper manner. It's an s2000, not a civic, cheap parts will not be going on it. Before anyone cares to point it out, the D2's are not cheap, the set I had were great in ride, handling, and quality. They may not be Blisteins or KW v3's but they're not cheap crap either.
09-11-2007, 08:31 PM
#18
Former Moderator
I buy high end parts because I like them. If I can't afford something, I just keep saving my money untill I can afford it and not settle for something else.
The problem with the market now is kids. Im sorry, but I had to say it. Most 21 year olds can't afford a set of volks, so they buy something of lessor quality. Not saying Volk is the best, but im just using it as an example. Big companies arn't stupid, they know a 2,000$ set of rims is going to sell before a set of 4,000$ ones. Alot of people in this industry don't work for what they own. I grew up with kids who were handed keys to new cars because they asked mom and dad for a new car. I asked for an s2000 for my first car, my parents told me to save my money if I wanted one.
You have people buying 500$ hatches and throwing a bunch of replica parts on them and then selling the cars to people for stupid amounts of money. kids are ruining the market. I hate to say it because I fall into the category of kids, but the kids that ruin the market are the future of the market.
The problem with the market now is kids. Im sorry, but I had to say it. Most 21 year olds can't afford a set of volks, so they buy something of lessor quality. Not saying Volk is the best, but im just using it as an example. Big companies arn't stupid, they know a 2,000$ set of rims is going to sell before a set of 4,000$ ones. Alot of people in this industry don't work for what they own. I grew up with kids who were handed keys to new cars because they asked mom and dad for a new car. I asked for an s2000 for my first car, my parents told me to save my money if I wanted one.
You have people buying 500$ hatches and throwing a bunch of replica parts on them and then selling the cars to people for stupid amounts of money. kids are ruining the market. I hate to say it because I fall into the category of kids, but the kids that ruin the market are the future of the market.
09-12-2007, 01:21 AM
#19
I think people tend to over-generalize these "trends."
Some "kids" will have "poor" taste. Others will have "good" taste. Some will have money, some won't. Some will want a $4,000 set of wheels, other will appreciate a nice set of $2,000 wheels, some will just want wheels, and other will appreciate the car in stock form.
There is a tuner market..... not everyone has to subscribe to it.
Sorry sales are down Endless.....
Some "kids" will have "poor" taste. Others will have "good" taste. Some will have money, some won't. Some will want a $4,000 set of wheels, other will appreciate a nice set of $2,000 wheels, some will just want wheels, and other will appreciate the car in stock form.
There is a tuner market..... not everyone has to subscribe to it.
Sorry sales are down Endless.....
09-12-2007, 07:14 AM
#20
Registered User
Originally Posted by cuonice,Sep 12 2007, 01:21 AM
There is a tuner market..... not everyone has to subscribe to it.
Sorry sales are down Endless.....
Sorry sales are down Endless.....
How sick would that be if the S came with Endless calipers and brakes, like the G or 350Z would come equipped with Brembos?
They are proven, so it's not like it would be a hard sell to Honda or Subaru or any other car maker.