Dressed2Kill

I have learned from all of my retail sale experence some people are just cheap. I have sold bikes, car perfomance parts, car audio, and now i sale industrial suppies. Some people want the cheapest product that will get the job done, nevermind how well or efficently it works and is made. You get what you pay for. Its kinda like the old saying " Cheap, Fast, and Relibable. You can only have 2 out of the 3."

Silver9k

Ok now I read everything, and for the most part I agree. There are a lot of people out there that just buy SOMETHING to say they have it. Even though its the cheapest set out there and IMO horrible. They are "cool" because they have a new part...or at least it makes them feel cool.

It is retarded, and those people are always going to be out there. They have been there since I got into this market 5 years ago (at 16) and are still here now. Now I don't own a business, so I don't know which way the trend is going. But if it is getting worse, then I'm sorry.

Just a couple things on my list for the future are CE28's (because they are very lightweight wheels that IMO look great on the S) or if I change my mind and don't care about weight I'll get the BBS LM's. Some spoon calipers, because I can use stock pads and they offer marginally better performance then stock. A header, I don't care what brand I'd want the header that would make the most power where I want power. However for me, with a 2.5L, nobody makes one R&D'd for my engine.

So IMO I guess, I don't think that the parts I want are the "high-end" one you guys speak of. They sure aren't rediculously expensive. But they definitly aren't cheap. At first I saw this thread attacking people like me, not willing to spend $3500 on coilovers, or $3000 on an exhaust, etc. Now I see that it is more about those just buying whatever they can and not caring who its made buy, I agree that they need to be educated.

As for not knowing Endless kit supported ABS...sorry...I could have sworn that I read that. I agree with the benefit that they will have greater endurance as well. But my point was that a lot of us are not building track only cars, we are building fun street cars that are more capable at the track. Which when you look at the marginal benefits in that aspect, it just doesn't hold as much value.

Turbo-Mafia.com

I honestly don't think it's dead, but it has been saturated by cheap ebay parts.

LostMotion

Too bad Endless' street brake pads suck big nuts.

TJF

I dunno... I have a different take. It seems to me that these utra high end Japanese parts are kinda ludicrous.

Lets go back to the first example... a 4k dollar set of brakes. Say a guy makes $100k a year... that means that 4% of his annual income is going to brakes, which are probably replacing OEM S2000 brakes that function very well in most situations and he will only benefit in terms of fade on the track. Thats a pretty huge expenditure for a marginal return!

Are the endless products any better in terms of stopping power/fade resistance than a $1200 spoon or brembo setup???? Probably not. Did they cost more to manufacture???? probably not. So what are people paying for?

Once the hype dies down and people realize that a product isnt worth the money, they usually stop buying it. If Tuner Parts are dead, it is because they priced themselves out of the realm of ordinary human beings. The average salary in the U.S. is less than $60k (I believe)... how the hell can a company stay in business selling $4k brakes for a car that already cost half that annual salary.... especially when there are cheaper options that perform as well if not better!?!?!?!

LostMotion

1. Too many companies competing in the high-end space.
2. OEMs producing better and better parts in the bolt-on range.
3. Very high prices relative to discretionary income -- tuner companies don't understand the discretionary dollars available to their target market especially in a place like California.
4. Misconceptions about the real value of their product -- your brake pads aren't all that Endless.

LostMotion

They probably did cost more to produce because Endless doesn't have economies of scale in production or in spreding overhead costs over a wider revenue base.

zbrewha863

[QUOTE=TJF,Sep 12 2007, 12:27 PM] I dunno... I have a different take.

GT Motoring

Well, here the thing. Me, as a business owner, am not going to tell some guy who just street drives his car to buy some 4k racing brakes. It would serve him no benefit. Even for the once and a while track guy, i would recomend the brakes. Like most products, their is a paticular market in mind when it is created. Sure some guys may buy the brakes for show purposes. to each their own.

Often, it comes down to the shop, or sales outlet for the product to properly qualify each customer based on their needs. The customer doesnt benefit from buying some thing they dont need or want, and in most cases if they are oversold, end up not being satisfied with the purchase. This is how i do things. It was actually originally kind of opted from one of my first sales job experiences.

Regarding your comments on the spoons or other $1200 solutions working just as good. i think you are wrong. All of those options working the same on the street, yes likely. Put oem rotors up next to endless 2 piece rotors, and tell me which you think will retain more heat in prolonged track situations.

Daniel L

Raleigh? You're an hour from VIR.. that's about as convenient as it gets.