"...information on Handgun Control's Center to Prevent Handgun Violence website actually praises Australia and attempts to portray Australia as a much safer country following strict gun-control measures passed by lawmakers in 1996."

"...although lawmakers responsible for passing the ban promised a safer country, the nation's crime statistics tell a different story:"

Countrywide, homicides are up 3.2 percent.
Assaults are up 8.6 percent.
Amazingly, armed robberies have climbed nearly 45 percent.
In the Australian state of Victoria, gun homicides have climbed 300 percent.
In the 25 years before the gun bans, crime in Australia had been dropping steadily.
There has been a reported "dramatic increase" in home burglaries and assaults on the elderly.

The above is from The International Crime Victims Survey, a study conducted by Leiden University in Holland, reported in 2001.

 

Given your size, and the fact that you are going to carry concealed, I would look for something in 9mm. A larger framed (ie heavier) gun would help with recoil of a larger/more powerful load like .40, .357, or .45. However, in a compact pistol, you will have more trouble controlling recoil.

All the manufactures you have mentioned are very good guns. I suggest you rent each at your local range and see which you like best. I personally don't care for the "Glock Action" but there are many that don't like the SA/DA action of Sig and H&K. So you are going to have to see what you like. The Glock fans tend to bash Sig with two arguments. The first being that they will rust. This is complete crap. Obviously if you neglect your gun, bad things will happen, but a properly maintained Sig is just as likely to rust as the plastic Glock. The second is that the Sigs barrell is mounted higer and causes more muzzle flip. I don't personally notice this, but I am 6'1" 240+ with big hands and I get full-sized guns.

I have no direct experience with H&K.

Something to look into is ordering the gun you choose from somewhere other than your local shop. In this area, the prices are NOT competetive at all. I have found it overall cheaper to order online, then have it shipped to a local FFL that does inexpensive transfers. Check out http://www.onpointfirearms.com and http://www.sportingarms.com

Make sure you find a local shop that will do the transfer before you order. Most of the shops in my area wanted a percentage of the cost of the gun. This made it cheaper to buy locally (which is why they did it.) I have heard that there are shops that will transfer for $25, but the best I found was $50.

 

All good choices but seriously consider the Kahr. Here's the site Kahr PM9 Read all the product reviews then find a range near you where you can try it.

 

Some one of the "Guns for everyone" team said before that we shouldn't use statistics about accidental deaths (43:1 if I remember correctly) because they lie. The same goes for the pro-gun argument.

You'd have to admit that a 300% increase is pretty remarkable. In fact anyone of a clear mind would find that figure abberant. It's not. It's true. There has been a reckoning in the Victorian underworld in the last year or so with several known crime figures executed, many in public and in full view (such as at a children's soccer match). Another was gunned down outside a bar right next to his Honda S2000.

And strangely enough a few years back the Victorian Police developed a reputation for shooting first and asking questions (usually of the Coroner) afterwards. None of this is much to be proud of.

Also, I live in Mosman, one of the more conservative and well to do suburbs (dunno how I snuck in). Yet in recent times there have been several armed hold-ups and even a drive-by shooting in this and neighbouring suburbs.

All of these are facts. But to put them in perspective, when we have a drive by shooting anywhere in Australia it is headline news. You'd have to have very big papers in the states to say the same.

And I don't see a correlation between the abolition of guns in society and armed hold ups and gun violence. Except perhaps some guns owners rather than hand their guns in sell them on the black market instead.

But lets face it, even when guns were legal a shopkeeper still wasn't allowed have them behind the counter so I doubt their abolition is the reason for a rise in armed hold ups. And the sort of people who drive past a night club spraying bullets indicriminately don't really care whether the people on the door are packing or not. And heck, the crims in Victoria weren't rushing to hand in their sawn off shot guns when the buy back was announce so not much has changed there.

Most of the pistols that find their way into out underworld come from the only civilians that are licensed to carry hand guns: Security Guards. My question is, how do so many "Security" guards end up compromised. If they can't protect their own weapon what use are they to protect what they are hired to protect.

There are other reasons for those statistics which are true and many are fabrications. But the fact is, every gun that finds it's way into the underworld and shoots a teenager was once a gun that someone bought to protect their family. You can't stop criminals from buying guns, but you can limit their source.

We may be sliding into the same hell hole the states is in, but the less grease on the tracks the better.

 

sigs also want to jam when dirty. gun you have to baby in order to work properly isnt really a good "weapon". H&K's also do not need cleaning and tender care to work reliably. plus you get the SA and DA trigger action and other nice manually safety features i like.

 

At least the bosses know how to drive and what to drive in Australia

Ours are always chauffeured around

 

[quote name='ruexp67' date='Feb 12 2005, 03:54 PM']Given your size, and the fact that you are going to carry concealed, I would look for something in 9mm.

 

An FBI study showed that only about one-fourth of violent crimes are commited with guns. Another study indicated that guns are used about 3 to 5 times as often for defensive purposes as for criminal purposes, and in most, the gun is not fired. Yet, you will never see one of these stories on the evening news, because the media is controlled by anti-gun sons of bitches.

But, the hell with studies and statistics. In the end, it comes down to whether or not you believe you have the right to defend yourself with a gun. In the US,
85% of Americans believe they have a right to use guns to defend themselves in their homes.

Back on-topic, Black Nugget, try the Glock 30. I'm 5'8" 150lbs. The recoil is not that bad.

 

What are you talking about?

Any gun will fail if it's dirty enough. Sig, H&K, even the vaunted Glock will all let you down if you don't maintain it. I have shot up to 500 rnds through each of my Sigs in a single session. When I got home they were DIRTY (Winchester White Box is notoriously dirty ammo.) Never had a Failure to Fire, Failure to Feed or a Failure to Extract.

I don't advocate you buy any particular gun simply because some law enforcement agency or military arm uses it. However, as a guide to reliability, keep in mind that there are hundreds of such groups that are issued Sigs including the Navy SEALs. If they can manage to keep the guns reliable and firing while going through seawater, mud, sand, humidity, etc. I am pretty sure you can manage to keep one reliable in the suburbs.

The Kahr is also a well respected choice, but I have no experience with it directly.

The weight of the Glock is kept down by the polymer frame. Finding a classic Sig in the same weight would be difficult, but the P228 or P225 are about the same size as the compact Glock. I have not looked into them personally, so I don't know what would be the comparable version, but Sig also has their SigPro line which is polymer framed guns. It still has the SA/DA trigger like a Sig classic. Again, you may prefer Glock-action.

 

Then you sould pitty us all since he's living in the same world as we are. Honestly I doubt he'll ever need it but I'm glad he has a right to carry it.