Has anybody here served in the Military?
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 247
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by PilotKD,Apr 18 2005, 07:23 PM
If you're going to go in, I recommend going in as an officer. The pay as an airmen is pathetic and may suit the needs of an 18 year old high school graduate with absolutely no bills, but not someone with a 4 year degree, possibly married with children, etc... (compared to whats out there in the civilian world). I really didn't go in for the money or expect to get rich in the military, but for the most part, expect to be underpayed for what you'll be doing. That's just the way it is. I could be making almost 3x as much as a civilian doing what I'm doing minus the chance of being shot at, minus being deployed 200+ days a year to $hitty places (or some nice places). There are, however, plenty of benefits that you will never get as a civilian (like practically free health insurance for your family, tax free stuff on base, tax free pay when you deploy, etc...).
I was 26 and had been out of college 2+ years with a degree already when I joined. I applied to OTS (Air Force) for a pilot slot and when I was accepted, I knew that was what I would be doing before I went in. I could have dropped out of officer school up until the minute I got commissioned. If there is any way to go, I recommend OTS. 3 months, done. However, college will be coming out of your wallet compared to ROTC.
That said, if I had to do it all over again, I probably wouldn't have joined the military. It just seems like 90% bull$hit and 10% flying alot of times to me. I was a civilian commercial pilot before joining and actually started flying when I was 15 years old because I wanted to be an Air Force pilot, but after being in for only 2 years now, I'm losing my patience with it. I love the flying, but the life sucks. I think if someone offered me a civilian flying job with a $15k a year pay cut and a chance to walk out the front gate and never come back, I'd take it. Military life is a big run around and I've come to hate moving. I've moved 4 times in the past 2 years. That is a bit more than normal because I moved to different training bases (normally assignments are 3-4 years), but it gets old. I been through more improcessings/outprocessings and have filled out more forms and have attended more useless briefings than anyone could possibly imagine (unless you were in the militar). It seems as though every time you go to a new base, your paperwork gets screwed up, you don't get the money you deserve when you want it and you've got to go back and forth finding people to get things done, signatures, etc... Who lost your paperwork? Who's on leave? Who's TDY? There's a form for everything and by God, make copies of EVERYTHING because there is a good chance it'll get lost. Constant bull$hit like this and I sometimes ask myself, "Why exactly am I doing this?". We have a saying called, "Hurry up and wait." in the Air Force and this comes from everything always being a rush, but sometimes we really don't know why we're rushing because it seems as though nothing ever happens. If you're a person that likes to be in control over your life, then the military is not for you because you really have absolutely no control over your life. Uncle Sam does. I've spent 2+ years dealing with a long distance relationship with my fiance (now wife of 7 months) because she had her career and I had mine. This does not include the almost 2 years of long distance we had after we graduated college together and before I decided to go into the Air Force. We've neen married for 7 months and have lived 1000+ miles apart ever since just because I have been moving around and didn't want her leaving her job until I got somewhere more permanent. She will finally be moving in with me in less than a month (and then I get deployed for 60 days 3 weeks later
)
When you're in the miltary, "the mission" comes before everything else, even your family. You're a number. Nothing is done for your convenience. Ask the people in Iraq that spent 6-12 months year in Bagdad, came back for a few months and got sent back for another 6-12 months (with husbands, wives, kids, etc...). Some have never even seen their kids since they've been born. That's the job. You have to ask yourself if you're willing to live that kind of life and if what you'll be doing will be worth living that kind of life. I never had anyone in my immediate family in the military, so I really didn't have a good idea of what it'd be like (and the recruiter is the last person you want to ask because they'll leave lots of little important tidbits out so as to not intimidate you and/or turn you off). Think about it. The military is not what it used to be years and years ago where you were home alot and/or just went TDY to nice places. We are sprawled out in every arm pit of the world.
That aside, the miltary is what you make of it. As much as something may suck at times, you bust your ass, do your best and most of the time, good things will come out of it and oh, by the way, you're serving your country. If it were easy, there'd be more people doing it.
I was 26 and had been out of college 2+ years with a degree already when I joined. I applied to OTS (Air Force) for a pilot slot and when I was accepted, I knew that was what I would be doing before I went in. I could have dropped out of officer school up until the minute I got commissioned. If there is any way to go, I recommend OTS. 3 months, done. However, college will be coming out of your wallet compared to ROTC.
That said, if I had to do it all over again, I probably wouldn't have joined the military. It just seems like 90% bull$hit and 10% flying alot of times to me. I was a civilian commercial pilot before joining and actually started flying when I was 15 years old because I wanted to be an Air Force pilot, but after being in for only 2 years now, I'm losing my patience with it. I love the flying, but the life sucks. I think if someone offered me a civilian flying job with a $15k a year pay cut and a chance to walk out the front gate and never come back, I'd take it. Military life is a big run around and I've come to hate moving. I've moved 4 times in the past 2 years. That is a bit more than normal because I moved to different training bases (normally assignments are 3-4 years), but it gets old. I been through more improcessings/outprocessings and have filled out more forms and have attended more useless briefings than anyone could possibly imagine (unless you were in the militar). It seems as though every time you go to a new base, your paperwork gets screwed up, you don't get the money you deserve when you want it and you've got to go back and forth finding people to get things done, signatures, etc... Who lost your paperwork? Who's on leave? Who's TDY? There's a form for everything and by God, make copies of EVERYTHING because there is a good chance it'll get lost. Constant bull$hit like this and I sometimes ask myself, "Why exactly am I doing this?". We have a saying called, "Hurry up and wait." in the Air Force and this comes from everything always being a rush, but sometimes we really don't know why we're rushing because it seems as though nothing ever happens. If you're a person that likes to be in control over your life, then the military is not for you because you really have absolutely no control over your life. Uncle Sam does. I've spent 2+ years dealing with a long distance relationship with my fiance (now wife of 7 months) because she had her career and I had mine. This does not include the almost 2 years of long distance we had after we graduated college together and before I decided to go into the Air Force. We've neen married for 7 months and have lived 1000+ miles apart ever since just because I have been moving around and didn't want her leaving her job until I got somewhere more permanent. She will finally be moving in with me in less than a month (and then I get deployed for 60 days 3 weeks later
)When you're in the miltary, "the mission" comes before everything else, even your family. You're a number. Nothing is done for your convenience. Ask the people in Iraq that spent 6-12 months year in Bagdad, came back for a few months and got sent back for another 6-12 months (with husbands, wives, kids, etc...). Some have never even seen their kids since they've been born. That's the job. You have to ask yourself if you're willing to live that kind of life and if what you'll be doing will be worth living that kind of life. I never had anyone in my immediate family in the military, so I really didn't have a good idea of what it'd be like (and the recruiter is the last person you want to ask because they'll leave lots of little important tidbits out so as to not intimidate you and/or turn you off). Think about it. The military is not what it used to be years and years ago where you were home alot and/or just went TDY to nice places. We are sprawled out in every arm pit of the world.
That aside, the miltary is what you make of it. As much as something may suck at times, you bust your ass, do your best and most of the time, good things will come out of it and oh, by the way, you're serving your country. If it were easy, there'd be more people doing it.
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 581
Likes: 0
From: DC Area
Check out www.military.com for the pay scales.
I have to agree with PilotKD - it is quite a bit of BS to put up with. As an enlisted NCO (17 years now), I can tell you that you have to love your job (I'm a weather forecaster) to see past the BS and make a career of it. The upside is that very few corporate jobs in the US will pay you retirement pay for the rest of your life at age 38-45 if you stay in 20 years. The bonus to that is once you retire from the military, most jobs you get will net you more than the guy/gal in the next cubicle since you can add your retirement pay to your salary. The downside is that most private sector jobs pay significantly more per month/year than the military, so you have to look at that, too. Get paid more now, or get a steady income later for the rest of your life.
I had no idea if I was a career airman (willing to stay 20 years) until I served overseas and realized how cool it was to "see the world." I hit the 10 year point as a career airman (the hump, we call it) and decided that the stability and sacrifice was worth another 10 years and a guaranteed retirement check at age 40. However, I joined to serve my country, so the money was not really an issue when I was 18.
Officer or enlisted, either way you have to put up with the BS. The advantage of being an officer is getting paid much more to put up with it!
The question you have to ask yourself is if serving your country is worth the sacrifice of not seeing your loved ones when you want to, of the BS PilotKD spoke of, and ultimately, worth sacrificing your life for. We've lost thousands in Iraq, and sadly I personally have lost friends in my 17 years. Each and every one of them made the ultimate sacrifice. Bottom line, you have to have a commitment to making sure your family is protected; that your family remains free thanks to your efforts. Flying jets, pushing paperwork, guarding an empty flightline, driving a tank, handing out basketballs - each and every job we do in the military is important and each and every military member realizes they may have to make that ultimate sacrifice.
Of course, if the day comes that I as a forecaster ever have to use a weapon, we as a nation are in a world of hurt! We in the Air Force leave the weapons to the pilots and security forces folks!
I have to agree with PilotKD - it is quite a bit of BS to put up with. As an enlisted NCO (17 years now), I can tell you that you have to love your job (I'm a weather forecaster) to see past the BS and make a career of it. The upside is that very few corporate jobs in the US will pay you retirement pay for the rest of your life at age 38-45 if you stay in 20 years. The bonus to that is once you retire from the military, most jobs you get will net you more than the guy/gal in the next cubicle since you can add your retirement pay to your salary. The downside is that most private sector jobs pay significantly more per month/year than the military, so you have to look at that, too. Get paid more now, or get a steady income later for the rest of your life.
I had no idea if I was a career airman (willing to stay 20 years) until I served overseas and realized how cool it was to "see the world." I hit the 10 year point as a career airman (the hump, we call it) and decided that the stability and sacrifice was worth another 10 years and a guaranteed retirement check at age 40. However, I joined to serve my country, so the money was not really an issue when I was 18.
Officer or enlisted, either way you have to put up with the BS. The advantage of being an officer is getting paid much more to put up with it!
The question you have to ask yourself is if serving your country is worth the sacrifice of not seeing your loved ones when you want to, of the BS PilotKD spoke of, and ultimately, worth sacrificing your life for. We've lost thousands in Iraq, and sadly I personally have lost friends in my 17 years. Each and every one of them made the ultimate sacrifice. Bottom line, you have to have a commitment to making sure your family is protected; that your family remains free thanks to your efforts. Flying jets, pushing paperwork, guarding an empty flightline, driving a tank, handing out basketballs - each and every job we do in the military is important and each and every military member realizes they may have to make that ultimate sacrifice.
Of course, if the day comes that I as a forecaster ever have to use a weapon, we as a nation are in a world of hurt!
We in the Air Force leave the weapons to the pilots and security forces folks!
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 17,288
Likes: 39
From: Nashville
Originally Posted by Saab9-3,Apr 17 2005, 01:09 AM
I am 20 years old and have a full ride to college, as well as 2 full-time jobs.
I don't think I would want to be in the military.... having to salute some duech-bag who is screaming (and spitting) orders at you all the time (unless that is just in the movies???).
Goodluck in your decision.
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 8,796
Likes: 2
From: San Diego, Wess-Side!!
I'm currently a LT in the US Navy.....started as an E-1 (very bottom) currently just went over 17 years....
If your looking for a place to start cause you don't have direction in your life...... sign up and give it a try.
The "military" is not for everyone. I look at it as paying my dues..... It's a lifestyle, not just a job.
"People are the WAY they are, no matter WHERE they are" If you have a successful tour in the military and hate it, take your College money the military gives you and get out....move on. You will succeed no matter what you decide to do.
If your a loser with no work ethic.....the military will only amplify your situation. The days of sitting around are over... The military is cutting back manning and the push for recruiting is down.
Someone made a comment about being just a "number"..... NOT TRUE!!!
You are volunteering to join a organization that could put your life in danger.... it's not delivering pizza.
364 days of the year you may be able to treat it like a 9-5 job.....but that 1 day you may be called upon to do the dirty deed.....you have to be able to step up.
A lot of the young sailors today think it's a summer job.......
IMHO.... If your young, single and looking for an experience that will change your life.... Join and make the best of it.
I'm 34 and can retire in 3 more years with full pension.... but I can stay in longer if I choose.
DO IT.......My challenge to you.....
If your looking for a place to start cause you don't have direction in your life...... sign up and give it a try.
The "military" is not for everyone. I look at it as paying my dues..... It's a lifestyle, not just a job.
"People are the WAY they are, no matter WHERE they are" If you have a successful tour in the military and hate it, take your College money the military gives you and get out....move on. You will succeed no matter what you decide to do.
If your a loser with no work ethic.....the military will only amplify your situation. The days of sitting around are over... The military is cutting back manning and the push for recruiting is down.
Someone made a comment about being just a "number"..... NOT TRUE!!!
You are volunteering to join a organization that could put your life in danger.... it's not delivering pizza.
364 days of the year you may be able to treat it like a 9-5 job.....but that 1 day you may be called upon to do the dirty deed.....you have to be able to step up.
A lot of the young sailors today think it's a summer job.......
IMHO.... If your young, single and looking for an experience that will change your life.... Join and make the best of it.
I'm 34 and can retire in 3 more years with full pension.... but I can stay in longer if I choose.
DO IT.......My challenge to you.....
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 17,288
Likes: 39
From: Nashville
Originally Posted by SIIK2NR,Apr 19 2005, 12:03 PM
I'm 34 and can retire in 3 more years with full pension.... but I can stay in longer if I choose.
My brother-in law "retired" after 20 years and now has to work at the airport as a screener just so he can pay his bills. Not sure how high up he got before he retired... i think he went in right after highschool and just did average stuff...
I think they bring in ~ $1200 net for the monthly pension amount. Not sure who pays for their health insurance, etc.... but $1200 a month is not even enough to pay my mortgage.
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 8,796
Likes: 2
From: San Diego, Wess-Side!!
Originally Posted by Scot,Apr 19 2005, 09:36 AM
could you define "full pension"?
My brother-in law "retired" after 20 years and now has to work at the airport as a screener just so he can pay his bills. Not sure how high up he got before he retired... i think he went in right after highschool and just did average stuff...
I think they bring in ~ $1200 net for the monthly pension amount. Not sure who pays for their health insurance, etc.... but $1200 a month is not even enough to pay my mortgage.
My brother-in law "retired" after 20 years and now has to work at the airport as a screener just so he can pay his bills. Not sure how high up he got before he retired... i think he went in right after highschool and just did average stuff...
I think they bring in ~ $1200 net for the monthly pension amount. Not sure who pays for their health insurance, etc.... but $1200 a month is not even enough to pay my mortgage.
Each year after 20 it goes up another 2.5% up to 75% of base pay.
I made the comment about paying my dues.....
The Navy although a career......it's not what I WANT to do....
I will start another whole new career....and use the Masters Degree that the Navy paid for to start it.
Additionally I receive over $2000 a month just for a place to live...needless to say....it's paying my mortgage right now.
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 17,288
Likes: 39
From: Nashville
Originally Posted by SIIK2NR,Apr 19 2005, 12:54 PM
If I retire as an 0-4 LCDR in 2008 Base pay approximately $6400 a month my pension will be around $3100-$3200 before taxes.
Each year after 20 it goes up another 2.5% up to 75% of base pay.
I made the comment about paying my dues.....
The Navy although a career......it's not what I WANT to do....
I will start another whole new career....and use the Masters Degree that the Navy paid for to start it.
Additionally I receive over $2000 a month just for a place to live...needless to say....it's paying my mortgage right now.
Each year after 20 it goes up another 2.5% up to 75% of base pay.
I made the comment about paying my dues.....
The Navy although a career......it's not what I WANT to do....
I will start another whole new career....and use the Masters Degree that the Navy paid for to start it.
Additionally I receive over $2000 a month just for a place to live...needless to say....it's paying my mortgage right now.
I think you have a much better deal going than he did. He just sort of got by instead of trying to accel.
Registered User
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 2,432
Likes: 0
From: South Jersey
Originally Posted by jiggagnome,Apr 18 2005, 10:34 PM
WOW, thanks for that response, I too just recently graduated from college and was contemplating military life, but was hesitant being that I am slightly liberal. If you dont mind me asking how much is "officer pay". Thanks alot
)Being that I am now 28 and wasn't a 22 year old AF Academy or ROTC grad when I entered and wasn't exposed to this kind of life early, I got spoiled with civilian life. As a civilian, you get to do what you want, when you want, where you want (in the confines of the law of course 
). Not so in the military and that gets a bit frustrating. If you want the military experience with a bit more leeway, join the reserves or the Air National Guard.Officer pay can be quite good for some jobs or underpayed for others. We pretty much all get paid the same by rank and years of service. Some jobs get some type of special pay (like flight pay for example if you're aircrew). Doctors in the Air Force are officers and get special pay for what they do in the medical field. They will usually be commissioned as a Captain or above right off the start instead of starting as an 2nd LT. This is because of what they do and they will go to a special commissioning source, like COT (Commissioned Officer Training), which is sort of like the OTS "BOT" (Basic Officer Training) and is done at Maxwell AFB, Montgomery, AL. For example, an anesthesiologist in the military gets a $36,000 annual bonus to their pay, so if one is say a Captain, they're pretty much making 6 figures.
For those that aren't familar with the military pay system, you get a "base pay" that is taxable, a BAS (Basic Allowance for Substanance), a BAH (Basic Allowance for Housing - if you live off base and varies with zip code/single/married) and whatever special pay you may get for your specific job (Flight Pay for me). Then there are also a few others when you deploy to a combat zone (Hostile Fire Pay, Imminant Danger Pay, Family Separation Pay, etc...). You are also tax free for the month if you so much as step foot or fly over a combat zone (which is nice
). Seeing as though you can figure out what anyone makes in the miltary on the internet and it's not a big secret, I'll show you what I make as a 1st LT with about 2.5 years of service.BASE PAY -- 3,074.70
BAS -- 183.99
BAH -- 897.93
FLY PAY -- 125.00
Total Net Monthly Pay -- 4281.62
So, after 12 months, I get paid $51,379.44. The good thing is, only your base pay and special pays are taxable. Your BAS and BAH are not taxable. So for example, for me, almost $13,000 of my annual salary is tax free. If you live on base in base housing, you won't get BAH (and have to be married to live on base). As a brand new 2nd LT right out of OTS I was making about $36,000 a year in the area I was at (BAH goes up and down depending on where you live). That said, the first 4 years as an officer have the largest raises. For example, when I made 1st LT 2 months ago, I got about an $8,000 annual raise, which is pretty darn good. Then, because I started OTS in November and got commissioned in Feb, my date of service or pay date actually started in November, but my date of rank is in Feb. When next November rolls around, I go from a $3,074.70 base pay to a $3,541.20 base pay and that's almost $6,000 a year raise. If you follow the pay scales, it's pretty self explanitory. Flight pay also goes up. For example, in July, mine goes up to $156 from 125. Big whoop, but hey, I guess it's something. When you hit over 6 years of flight duty, flight pay is $650 a month!
When I turn Captain in another 21 months, I'll be making about $70,000. Not bad money. Not great, considering I could be making $150,000 a year flying an airliner the size of the plane I'm flying now, but not bad. Like I said, the benefits are pretty good. Where else can you get free health care for you and your family? I think the only thing I pay is $6 to add my wife on my plan for dental. I've also got $250,000 life insurance for $16 a month and $100,000 for my wife for an extra $8 or so. If you figure out how much money those benefits save you, it adds up.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post