If a bailout happens, it should come with stipulations.

GM makes one line of cars. Ford makes one line of cars. Chrysler makes one line of cars.

CAFE and emission standards MUST be met or exceeded.

Strict limit on oversized SUV's which no longer get tax credits and are subject to the same gas guzzler taxes unless they are registered as commercial vehicles to a bona fide business.

If the assembly line must take a cut is wages, upper management must also take a cut with a specific cap related to the assembly worker.

Since labor costs are down, manufacturing must be returned to the states so that in a given number of years at least 90% of an American car is to be made in the United States with absolutely NO tarriffs on imports, a la Harley's protective tarriff on 700+ cc motorcycles in the mid 80's.

 

The sad story behind the Big 3 is that everything that Honda and Toyota does, they learned from Henry Ford. The difference is that Honda and Toyota took it seriously and took the management principles to the next level. It is in the books, Henry Ford, Today and Tomorrow. Toyota's book is called the Toyota Way. Almost word for word, Henrys written first, but the Toyota Way is almost a sequel improving on each principle that Henry Ford used. Honda started the rust through warranty. Their cars when they first came out rusted throught the floor boards. They learned from their mistakes and made better cars and warrantied them. As well after World War II, Juran and Deming were teaching US auto companies Lean Manufacturing and Total Quality Management. We did not listen. They went to Japan to rebuild their country. The listened and were eager to learn. Recently I read an article on Toyota that stated that during this tough economy, US auto makers were sending employees home. Paying some and laying some off. Toyota is keep all of their work force. They have slowed production, but they are teaching Lean Manufacturing on the line, in class rooms instead of laying off or paying workers to sit at home. As well they have put together teams to start disecting thier cars to come up with better ways to build them. They are preparing for the upturn in the auto industry that will eventually happen. When it comes to quality, a loss of progress for 1 year takes 5 years to make up. We have been behind and have not made much progress. Once we think we have equalled their quality, they will unveil their next big thing and we will start the race again.

I have had much expierence with GM products and they are some of thier best cars, but they are no match for the imports. They are not very exciting. Note to GM, the buying market has changed. The cars of yester year are not going to excite todays buying generation.

 

[QUOTE=1AP12NV,Nov 18 2008, 06:58 PM]FYI (and anyone else who feels strongly about this).

 

i disagree with this bailout business. i was watching the news last night and thats how i heard of this letter. a few comments from the govt. reps were "how do we know this is it? how do we know you will not come back 6 months from now asking for a 50 billion dollar bail out" and "we can put as much money into the company as they want but if the business model does not change, the business will still fail"

i totally agree that this is the big 3's fault for not keeping up with today's market. they knew that the market was going towards gas efficient cars, yet they still chose to make big gas guzzling SUV's. granted i'm not well educated and learned about the big 3's business model, i want to state my opinion that they've made some poor choices that caused their business to go bad.

as previously stated by another member, toyota and honda are able to manage their companies during these tough times, why can't the big 3 do the same? are they unwilling to adapt to today's market? because if thats the case, then it would truly be a waste of taxpayer money to bail them out when they will continue with their failing business model.

also, i dont think we have the luxury of bailing out everyone that asks for money, yesterday was the big banks, yes thats understandable because if the country's finances freeze, the economy will continue to fail, today the car makers, why? because they want a piece of the pie too? and who's going to ask for a bailout tomorrow? the airline industry? tourism industry?? who knows?

 

see thats not entirely true gm, ford,and chrysler have been developing hybrids and alterative fuel vehicles for a while, but what gets me gm actually came out with a TAHOE HYBRID,wtf a hybrid SUV that gets 18 mpg? whats the friggin point you can buy a mini van from any japanese company that gets better mpg plus has more room.......

so my question, why save them when they can't save themselves?

 

i guess what i was saying is that the american car companies knew that the trend of the market was to produce fuel efficient cars, but they still made those big SUV hybrids that are still essentially gas wasters. and they complain about the CAFE being raised...

and thats exactly the "poor decisions" that i was describing in my previous post. i almost feel motivated enough to research more on this subject to know enough to write to my local representative

 

A sign of poor management as well is the fact that GM has too many diverse model line ups. Yes they state that they have more fuel efficent cars than Honda and Toyota, that is becuase they offer 20 different models that are not offered by import companies. The only way GM will make it, will be to shut off some of the models and combined all brands. Look at the GMC and Chevy trucks. Why do they offer both, make one model and concentrate on the perfection of it. If you try to focus on many different models, you will be bad at all. It is proven that most companies make 80% of thier profits on thier top 20% of thier product offering. Drop 80% of the prodcut offering and steer customers into your top 20%. If they like GM models, they will still buy as long as they percieve you better than the competition.

 

Yes you see Toyota and Honda both have their standard brands and luxury brands, but that is as diversified as they get. Look at what Toyota did with the Scion brand, they made low cost, high quality, fuel efficient cars. This is to lure the young buyer in to Toyota dealerships. Once you have had a great Toyota expierence, you will return to buy again. I have 3 times now based on my expierence and Honda 3 times as well. Toyota and Honda want to sell cars to you, your kids, grand kids and their kids for generations. GM focused on selling today, that is why they continued building the guslers.

 

I'm only in favor of bailing them out IF they change their ways. If it's business, and the UAW, as usual, then no thanks.

We have to be prepared for what the collapse of the big 3 in this country means however. I know the big 3 put out that propaganda piece but i don't think the results would be that far off. It would devastate the economy.

 

No bailout.
file bankruptcy
reorganize.
give pension fund to UAW to manage and then kick them out.
break apart GM into separate companies that own minority stakes in each other so they can share established resources and parts, but also move in separate directions and create distinct brands. (this also creates more jobs in the backoffice)
Dealer networks will also be part owners and make money when their stock goes up.
LOWER PRODUCTION!!! why do we have to make as many cars as we can? then put cash on the hood to get rid of them? this also increases residual values.
extend life cycles, but make decent tweaks mid-cycle to differentiate (ie. hyundai sonata 08-09)
Make executive pay have some correlation to company stock and market competition.
NO golden parachute if your company underperformed in your tenure.