New motorcycle rider question
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 11,615
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From: North Richland Hills, TX
Is it a ZX-6R or a ZX-6E? Big difference - the ZX-6R is much cooler, but maybe not the best beginner bike unless you're very disciplined w/ the throttle. Don't let the 600cc size fool you, it has plenty of power to get you in all kinds of trouble (and have lots of fun).
If it's a 6R, the price sounds pretty good. Compared w/ most of the competition, the Kawi has pretty comfy ergonomics and wind protection, but a bigger feel that doesn't inspire as much confidence in the twisties as an R6 or F4.
JRM has some good points, but I feel his criteria is overly stringent as follows:
Tires: Nothing wrong w/ worn tires, they can be replaced. What's wrong w/ thrashed rubber and scratched pegs? It just means the bike was ridden like it was intended to be! Tire cupping can be also be caused my bad suspension adj. or poor riding technique. I wouldn't let tires influence the decision too much
Chain: If it's a ZX-6R, don't spend too much time looking for that center stand - you won't find one on 95+% of modern sportbikes.
Rear Shock: check the compression/rebound damping and spring preload before making any judgments about shock performance. Kawasaki isn't exactly known as a leader in quality suspension, though.
Front Forks: Most people I know w/ lowered forks do it for quicker turn in (steepens the effective steering head angle). My F4 has lowered forks, and I could care less about drag racing, but it turns REALLY quick. A steering damper is highly recommended w/ this mod.
Brakes: I wouldn't worry about the brake fluid condition, it's easy enough to change. You should get stainless or kevlar lines anyway, so you'd have to change the fluid anyway. The best way to tell if a bike has been raced is to see if it's been safety wired - look for drill holes in the oil drain bolt, oil filler cap, axle nuts, caliper mounting bolts, etc.
In general, these bikes are extremely tough, and are crashed or pass through several owners well before they die of abuse.
IMO, you'll be better served by starting off w/ something mellower and naked, so you don't destoy all that expensive plastic when/if you drop it. Also, a V-twin offers a much smoother, more managable powerband. My admittedly biased suggestions would be to look at a Honda Hawk (used, prod. was discontinued ~10 years ago) or a Suzuki SV650.
If it's a 6R, the price sounds pretty good. Compared w/ most of the competition, the Kawi has pretty comfy ergonomics and wind protection, but a bigger feel that doesn't inspire as much confidence in the twisties as an R6 or F4.
JRM has some good points, but I feel his criteria is overly stringent as follows:
Tires: Nothing wrong w/ worn tires, they can be replaced. What's wrong w/ thrashed rubber and scratched pegs? It just means the bike was ridden like it was intended to be! Tire cupping can be also be caused my bad suspension adj. or poor riding technique. I wouldn't let tires influence the decision too much
Chain: If it's a ZX-6R, don't spend too much time looking for that center stand - you won't find one on 95+% of modern sportbikes.
Rear Shock: check the compression/rebound damping and spring preload before making any judgments about shock performance. Kawasaki isn't exactly known as a leader in quality suspension, though.
Front Forks: Most people I know w/ lowered forks do it for quicker turn in (steepens the effective steering head angle). My F4 has lowered forks, and I could care less about drag racing, but it turns REALLY quick. A steering damper is highly recommended w/ this mod.
Brakes: I wouldn't worry about the brake fluid condition, it's easy enough to change. You should get stainless or kevlar lines anyway, so you'd have to change the fluid anyway. The best way to tell if a bike has been raced is to see if it's been safety wired - look for drill holes in the oil drain bolt, oil filler cap, axle nuts, caliper mounting bolts, etc.
In general, these bikes are extremely tough, and are crashed or pass through several owners well before they die of abuse.
IMO, you'll be better served by starting off w/ something mellower and naked, so you don't destoy all that expensive plastic when/if you drop it. Also, a V-twin offers a much smoother, more managable powerband. My admittedly biased suggestions would be to look at a Honda Hawk (used, prod. was discontinued ~10 years ago) or a Suzuki SV650.
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Joined: Jun 2001
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From: Ashland VA
kadeshpa; I will take issue with your remarks about the brakes on the ZX-6R. Your statement implies a major defect. This is not the case. I believe that this bike's brakes are just fine for a street application. The bike in race trim may require some additional brake work, but I don't think turbo will be on the track for a while so it's a moot point. IMHO he will not go wrong with either the "E" or the "R".
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Joined: Mar 2001
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From: Dana Point, CA
I think Jeff has pretty much given you all the insight you're gonna need. That man knows his bikes!!!
Be carefull, my man. Bikes on the street are a tremendous amount of fun. They do require a healthy dose of self control and discipline. I'm glad that you've taken the MSF course. IMO, it should be mandatory for any new rider just as the "advanced course" should be mandatory for anyone who has gotten past the newbie stage and considers himself adept at riding on the street.
Aloha-
Be carefull, my man. Bikes on the street are a tremendous amount of fun. They do require a healthy dose of self control and discipline. I'm glad that you've taken the MSF course. IMO, it should be mandatory for any new rider just as the "advanced course" should be mandatory for anyone who has gotten past the newbie stage and considers himself adept at riding on the street.
Aloha-
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 11,615
Likes: 1
From: North Richland Hills, TX
Originally posted by JRM
Well, I don't want to start a word war here but your experience with bikes sounds rather limited! A bike that is street raced usually doesn't have safety wire. Neither has it been drilled for safety wire use. Usually "SQUIDS" don't really care about these kind of things.
Well, I don't want to start a word war here but your experience with bikes sounds rather limited! A bike that is street raced usually doesn't have safety wire. Neither has it been drilled for safety wire use. Usually "SQUIDS" don't really care about these kind of things.
Originally posted by JRM
Excessive wear of a rear tire is generally a sign of poor maintenance or abuse. Just as well as balled up rubber on the edge of the tread is a sure sign that the bike was probably ridden to hard and would need additional maintenance.
Excessive wear of a rear tire is generally a sign of poor maintenance or abuse. Just as well as balled up rubber on the edge of the tread is a sure sign that the bike was probably ridden to hard and would need additional maintenance.
QUOTE]Originally posted by JRM
Kawasaki uses the same industry standard that , Honda, Yamaha and Suzuki uses in the suspension. This is Showa so you may as well have made the same comment about every sportbike produced in Japan.
[/QUOTE]
True, but Showa's line has different levels of performance (just like Honda's line goes from the Civic to the S2000) and the manufacturers specify spring rate, valving, etc. Additionally, the Kawi's shock linkage has too rapid a rising rate which makes it feel harsh and hurts the power transfer IMO. I had a '99 ZX9R, then switched to a '99R6 and a '00R1. The Yammies had far superior suspension front and rear.
Originally posted by JRM
Lowering the forks in the steering head is only required for extreme use and is generally dangerous because it places extra pressure on steering head or triple tree races and bearings. The only time this is not a factor is when the rake of the steering head or triple tree is adjustable or changed all togather. It also places additional stress on the fork tubes. They cannot load properly because of additional uneven pressure on the fork seals. You also need to make radical adjustments to the rear suspension. We don't even do this on the track because it is illegal and dangerous. Personally, if you've done this, I'd advise you to put it back to stock configuration. This type of adjustment would void any possible warranty claim for damage to the front suspension. Addtionally, it makes the bike extremely twitchy, unstable in a straight line and has a tendency to enduce wobble at higher speeds.
Lowering the forks in the steering head is only required for extreme use and is generally dangerous because it places extra pressure on steering head or triple tree races and bearings. The only time this is not a factor is when the rake of the steering head or triple tree is adjustable or changed all togather. It also places additional stress on the fork tubes. They cannot load properly because of additional uneven pressure on the fork seals. You also need to make radical adjustments to the rear suspension. We don't even do this on the track because it is illegal and dangerous. Personally, if you've done this, I'd advise you to put it back to stock configuration. This type of adjustment would void any possible warranty claim for damage to the front suspension. Addtionally, it makes the bike extremely twitchy, unstable in a straight line and has a tendency to enduce wobble at higher speeds.
Originally posted by JRM
Kadeshpa, I hate to burst your bubble but Kawasaki in the 600 middleweight class of AMA, is the only bike that does not require extensive modification to make them work for racing use. As the Kawi is heavier than most the middleweight now being produced Kawaski paid special attention to this area on thier bikes. If you like, I can call Doug Poulan or Doug Chandler and let them explain it to you as I do occassionally ride with them. My experience with racing motorcycles is quite extensive, since I've been involved in it for over 30 years.
Kadeshpa, I hate to burst your bubble but Kawasaki in the 600 middleweight class of AMA, is the only bike that does not require extensive modification to make them work for racing use. As the Kawi is heavier than most the middleweight now being produced Kawaski paid special attention to this area on thier bikes. If you like, I can call Doug Poulan or Doug Chandler and let them explain it to you as I do occassionally ride with them. My experience with racing motorcycles is quite extensive, since I've been involved in it for over 30 years.
BTW, I agree w/ everything else you said!
What kind of bike(s) do you ride? Have any pics to share w/ us?
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From: Austin
Also be careful of the odo-- Bike odo's are easy to roll-back. Also, in my past experience, I always had valve adjustment issues with Kawasaki's... inparticular Ninja's/ZX-6's. But that was 6 yrs ago...so who knows now.
Good luck, and prepare for the tickets.
-- Aaron
Good luck, and prepare for the tickets.
-- Aaron
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Joined: Nov 2000
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From: Austin
Also be careful of the odo-- Bike odo's are easy to roll-back. Also, in my past experience, I always had valve adjustment issues with Kawasaki's... inparticular Ninja's/ZX-6's. But that was 6 yrs ago...so who knows now.
Good luck, and prepare for the tickets.
-- Aaron
Good luck, and prepare for the tickets.
-- Aaron
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Joined: Dec 2000
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From: The BadLands
Chris,
I have a 1999 GoldWing SE, a TZ250 Yamaha, GSXR600 AMA Supersport, a GSXR750 AMA Supersport, and currently working on a TL1000R for the street with some special Yosh parts that I got from a young gentleman from Canada who races in the Canadian Superbike Series. I also have two vintage racers, a Matchless 500cc single, and a CB750R that has been modified for AMA vintage racing. The one I really would like to get put back togather is a original RG500 Square Four that I purchased in the UK before I left. It's in boxes and that's ashame. It was onced raced by Barry Sheene.
Just a little background. I started RR in 1973 in a southern California series that no longer exsists that was swallowed up by WERRA. I started at Ontario Motorspeedway with the likes of Chuck Parm and a few others. Raced at Riverside Raceway, Sears Point, and Laguna Seca. I progressed by racing overseas in the British RR series and raced at tracks like Snetterton(SP), Donnington Park, Brands, Olton (SP) Park, and even Silverstone. I even raced at the Isle of Mann once. (Scarey but a trip)! I got to race as a privateer against the likes of Joey Dunlop, Ron Haslam, and once against Barry Sheene. I was stationed in the military there and took full advantage of the leave time. I wish I could go back sometime. I learned so much from watching, racing against and talking to people like this. I got a chance to even learn from a world champion Steve Baker. Now there was a rider!
I'm not going to debate with you which is the better bike. It's a personal choice at the time of purchase. TP was asking for someone to give him some honest tips and pointers. That's what I like to do. Especially with all the experience I've acquired over these past 30 years of riding and racing. I'm agreeing with you except that you are where I was 20 years ago. I hope that you do well. Anyway, if you ever want some pointers on rear wheel steering, late braking, bike setup, cam degreeing, jetting or anything else I can share, let me know! You know where to find me!
Cheers
TP sorry to hone in on your thread! Let me know if you have any question!
I have a 1999 GoldWing SE, a TZ250 Yamaha, GSXR600 AMA Supersport, a GSXR750 AMA Supersport, and currently working on a TL1000R for the street with some special Yosh parts that I got from a young gentleman from Canada who races in the Canadian Superbike Series. I also have two vintage racers, a Matchless 500cc single, and a CB750R that has been modified for AMA vintage racing. The one I really would like to get put back togather is a original RG500 Square Four that I purchased in the UK before I left. It's in boxes and that's ashame. It was onced raced by Barry Sheene.
Just a little background. I started RR in 1973 in a southern California series that no longer exsists that was swallowed up by WERRA. I started at Ontario Motorspeedway with the likes of Chuck Parm and a few others. Raced at Riverside Raceway, Sears Point, and Laguna Seca. I progressed by racing overseas in the British RR series and raced at tracks like Snetterton(SP), Donnington Park, Brands, Olton (SP) Park, and even Silverstone. I even raced at the Isle of Mann once. (Scarey but a trip)! I got to race as a privateer against the likes of Joey Dunlop, Ron Haslam, and once against Barry Sheene. I was stationed in the military there and took full advantage of the leave time. I wish I could go back sometime. I learned so much from watching, racing against and talking to people like this. I got a chance to even learn from a world champion Steve Baker. Now there was a rider!
I'm not going to debate with you which is the better bike. It's a personal choice at the time of purchase. TP was asking for someone to give him some honest tips and pointers. That's what I like to do. Especially with all the experience I've acquired over these past 30 years of riding and racing. I'm agreeing with you except that you are where I was 20 years ago. I hope that you do well. Anyway, if you ever want some pointers on rear wheel steering, late braking, bike setup, cam degreeing, jetting or anything else I can share, let me know! You know where to find me!
Cheers
TP sorry to hone in on your thread! Let me know if you have any question!
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From: Defiance
JRM,
hahahaha you said Squid.
I have a classic squid mpeg.
Ran the TT huh? How much did they pay ya?
I was told if you ride well and qualify you get
some cash. I wanted to compete in '96 but I couldn't
get any of my racing buddies to share the costs with me.
Just had to settle for WERA, AMA, CCS and GLRRA
hahahaha you said Squid.
I have a classic squid mpeg.
Ran the TT huh? How much did they pay ya?
I was told if you ride well and qualify you get
some cash. I wanted to compete in '96 but I couldn't
get any of my racing buddies to share the costs with me.
Just had to settle for WERA, AMA, CCS and GLRRA