for what it's worth, I did not always agree with Bieg. However, I think it is a loss to all of us to have him "banned". As I have pointed out in other posts, I think he went too far at times and had a tendency to make things personal. If you can dismiss that, and maybe we couldn't, he offered a strong, intelligent, and emotional voice for enthusiasts.

I hope we rethink the decision to ban him.

by the way, i was unable to acces the thread that is referenced by DaveZ earlier in this thread.

 

Actually, I heard he had a private test done but the Moderators want him to take another polygraph under their supervision and with the Moderators choice of test administrator. I think they, the Moderators, felt that the proper questions weren't addressed and that Bieg's lawyers were spoon feeding the questions so he would pass. That's what I hear.

Mark

 

For some of his well-read, well informed posts, yes, losing Bieg will be a loss to our community. HOWEVER, when one member of this community becomes a huge headache to the people who OWN AND OPERATE this board, and after multiple warnings refuses to cooperate to make their involvement a positive thing to the OWNER of the board, I support the OWNER AND ADMINISTRATION's decision to let him go.

As Saliv8 said, this is like a job; people will bitch, moan, groan and gripe when they are fired, but ultimately, people should be responsible for their own actions.

I would not support the ban had Bieg NOT been asked, then warned MANY times to tone down the language he used so as not to offend when it wasn't necessary to do so and to avoid posting to threads where he was likely to incite a riot. He thumbed his nose at these requests, then warnings and did it anyway! There were a lot of times that a thread was discussing a topic, answering questions and providing useful information, and the entire course of conversation was SHUT DOWN by Bieg posting to it saying that it was all crap and that no one needed what was being discussed. This created more than a little hate and discontent, and HE KNEW IT WHEN HE DID IT. Why is everyone missing that point?

 

Luder94,

I totally agree. As a person who's not very knowledgable on technical aspects of cars, I for one enjoyed the heck out of those threads. Both sides are or were passionate in their beliefs and raised mostly intelligent questions. The truth always seemed to lie somewhere in the middle. The debates were made more enjoyable by their sometimes "colorful" use of language. Adhering to a strict standard of conduct can be quite boring. Now, if there were serious threats made unbeknownst to the rest of us, that's another issue altogether.

 

My previous post was written while SondraS2k was posting so I just wanted to add I never felt hate in the posts or threat of rioting just some well-placed jabs from both sides.

 

Yup, I noticed that they were doing some sort of "thread maintenance". It was there when I posted and it should be back later. If it has a new thread ID when it comes back, I'll correct my original post.

 

The original post on the subject was also moved to "Off Topic" in order to minimize exposure. That topic was finally derailed by moderators and others who started a thread within a thread on baseball thereby trivializing and deflecting the discussion.

Those who supported Bieg were also personally attacked by some who went so far as to use member names instead of user names in their posts. That thread is open but so thoroughly trashed that its sense was corrupted. You are seeing some of the same people starting the same tactic again here on this thread. (absurd references to polygraph tests).

Various aspects of the banning issue were discussed:

a. The fact that Bieg was banned even though he was responding to what appeared to many as much more disturbing insulting personal attacks from those who complained to C3 about Bieg;

b. Whether this board is still member oriented or has become overwhelmingly an infomercial forum for sponsors directed at owners;

c. Whether the folks who complained most about Bieg were associated with a group whose purpose is to promote the sale and marketing of after market parts for the S2000;

d. Whether the banning will have a chilling effect on future discussions, especially anyone who speaks out against the value of modding their S2000s.

What is clear is that Bieg's posts were intelligent and he an enthusiast for the S2000.

There are a lot of folks, who even though they may not have agreed with Bieg's opinions, and may even have found his style a bit crusty, are very upset and disappointed by the decision to ban Bieg.

As far as I am aware, Bieg is the only person who has been permanently banned from this site.

As for me, I definitely feel differently about the site now. I no longer see it as a forum generously provided by C3 where a community of common interest can discuss openly all issues relating to the S2000.

In my opinion what happened to Bieg was cruel and unfair.

I'll continue to visit this site and occasionally post as well, but as for me "that loving feeling is gone ..."

 

 

Bieg was banned after being asked, then warned, to cease and desist with the behavior that was contributing to the problems.

Isn't this what restraining orders are for?? For people who can't take a hint?

It was an INFORMED DECISION on Bieg's part to post in the manner that he did and in the threads that he did after being warned to stay out of the fray. Clearly, as modification opponent, he had no place in threads such as "the Mod Squad," where he knew that his disdain of modifications was not constructive or contributive in ANY way to the discussion at hand. As 2x6 and SilverFog are so quick to accuse everyone else, Bieg deliberately derailed a constructive discussion to flame wars, repeatedly, in order to shut down the discussion.

I never asked for his banishment, but I'm glad he's gone.

 

Sondra,

In reply to your thoughts:

There were other avenues rather than banning the member. Mind you, I stated "the member" and not Bieg. My argument is not FOR Bieg, it's a general argument against the action of banning a "non-troll".

Yes, Bieg may have egged on others, may have participated in thread where he wasn't welcome, and may have pushed the moderators and Erik's limits. But with the passion that he came with, did anyone expect any less of him? Once we profile someone else to be the same type of personality, do we just ban that member from the get go?

I did not miss the point of WHY he got banned....yes I agree that he did not comply with the admins.....but it didn't bother me. I always took his commentary for whatever it was worth...there were times he was voicing what he knew, and there were times he went fishing. I was adult enough to differentiate the two. When there were times I didn't want to read his arguments, I didn't; simple as that.

The point I was getting at was now there is a feeling of "Big Brother" over posters. I for one feel as if I make too much of a "stink" (even on this thread) that I may get a public warning, or I may bet the ultimate punishement. My internal conflict with every post now is whether or not I should post.....I don't want to offend anybody. Has that effectively cut down on things I may or may not say...my answer is, Yes! Has that affected the hundreds of other members? Most likely.



Ok....my point was taken, but may not have been made..

Sondra, please take this a friendly debate and not much else, 'cause you know "I love you like a cold-sore"
BTW, when are coming back up to Chicago?