[QUOTE]Originally posted by magician
[B]

Neither have you (or anyone else) *seen* X-rays, or radio waves.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ltweintz
[B]

How can this be a true statement to you when you believe god created us?

 

I was simply trying to ensure that we didn't descend to the childish "You haven't seen it so you can't know whether it's true" type of argument. I chose X-rays and radio waves for two reasons: your post mentioned X-rays, so the segue was handy, and these are examples of phenomena of which many people are aware, but which cannot be experienced directly through the senses; we know of (hypothesize?) their existence by the effects they create.

As I said, nothing profound here, just a gentle nudge.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by woodyandy
[B]JB

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Cedric Tomkinson
[B]

I'm not sure how we got from broken bones to X-rays and radio waves. Jonboy said he's "seen" broken bones mended. You just can't make statements like that and hope to get away with it, any more than you should hope to get away with drawing any comparison between his ill-chosen words and X-rays and radio waves.

 

Oh God, JonBoy... not the "well, what calibrates the calibrators" argument again. We've already handled that one. Please provide some new arguments as to why God must exist.

- Warren

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by chroot
[B]Oh God, JonBoy... not the "well, what calibrates the calibrators" argument again.

 

JonBoy, I guess I just have to admit to myself, that, despite your speaking ability, you really just don't grasp the most basic tenets of logic or science.

The reason scientists don't believe in ESP or faith healing is because the effect has never been demonstrated in a controlled setting. A controlled setting is one that is arranged so that no external effects are capable of mimicing the effects in question. A controlled setting is one that singles out one effect, and looks for it alone.

As I said, JonBoy, good science is science with proper rigor and formalism. Experimenters often see things they wish they didn't (like the neutrino appearing to have zero mass), or don't see things they wish they did (proton decay, for example). You seem to have this idea that science looks for certain things -- then keeps only the supporting bits of evidence, while brushing the rest under the rug. Science simply does not do this. Good science does not bind itself by only accepting what it expects -- it accepts what it sees. The Truth is the Truth, even when it's hard to swallow.

Show me good science that demonstrates faith healing. Show me a rigorous, properly designed, closed-form experiment that shows it to be true.

- Warren

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by JonBoy
[B]

How is an error determined?

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by chroot
[B]

Of course, you can erect some God who knows all and sees all, who lives outside time, space, logic, and Truth.