That is anti-arrogant actually. Arrogance is explaining how you impose your will on others and things around you; I'm not actually sure of the proper word to describe what you said, but arrogance is not explaining how you impose your will on yourself. You hit the nail on the head; you're human. You're a sharp blade in some ways, and a dull blade in other ways. Your partner will be the same way. Learn how to appreciate your own blade, how to handle it; how even the dull has uses in ways that are better than the sharp. Then learn to do that with your partner.

If it makes you feel better, I feel all of this coming from a broken home. I still feel this way about marriage even though a broken union ripped my life apart. Just want to remind you that a good chunk of these 'miserable' people; have put themselves in a spot to be miserable. You feel the way you think, people are miserable because they want to be subconciously. That's their fault, not yours. We inhabit the spaces that we inhabit, because we chose to inhabit them. People often step into the firepit, but instead they've painted it as a small pond of water in their own head, and then they bitch about burning their feet when they step in.

You know its funny, I've never heard a blind person complain about not being able to see properly; only those with vision seem to whine about being blind.

 

I dont get you, George. I've always been nice to you, but you insist on being condescending. I asked you simply, what value does marriage have over not being married and you come back with more vagueness. what's the deal? did i offend you sometime in the past?

quite honestly, your generation was happy with lots of things due to low standards/expetations. while thats good for you, its not really helpful with the youth of today as that can of worm has been open for sometime.

 

usually.[/quote]
It may be true that everything usually is done for gain (though you might have a hard time proving it), but that's not what I asked. You say that everything usually must be done for gain, then prompt me to provide a counterexample. Sorry, the ball's in your court. You proffered the thesis; it's up to you to prove it.

 

How am I being condescending? Lots of people are happily married. What's with the "...your generation was happy with lots of things due to low standards/expetations..." Who's being condescending now? My standards and expectations were as high as anyone's today, if not higher. What higher standards do you have, pray tell? I had a lot of choices before I got married. I lived with my future wife for two years before we decided that it was right. Look around. "The youth of today" are still getting married and carrying on with their lives. How is talking about almost 39 years of happiness in marriage vague? And why are you taking this so personally? If you don't want to hear what I have to say, then tune me out. It sounds like you already have anyway. It sounds like you have a problem with commitment.

 

usually.[/quote]
It may be true that everything usually is done for gain (though you might have a hard time proving it), but that's not what I asked. You say that everything usually must be done for gain, then prompt me to provide a counterexample. Sorry, the ball's in your court. You proffered the thesis; it's up to you to prove it.
[/quote]


lol, this is fun.

there is no imperative that forces, so no, "must" is not the correct word.

so... can you name something you do because it gains you nothing?



whoa, Raptor. it wasn't personal. it wasn't an insult. it was a statement. do you disagree that your generation had much lower expectations than the current one? and if so, have you seen this generation? seriously, take it down a notch. i'm not saying you didn't have choices. hell, everyone knows ur a stud i'm saying that your generation was content and accepted that 2 people would just exist together and that love was some fairy tale that you didn't necessarily have to have. im not even saying that low expectations is a bad thing. we for sure, would not have such a high divorce rate if expectations were lower than they generally are now.

your answer of "39 yrs of marriage" is is vague because that phrase means nothing besides that it has been 39 yrs since you got married. i was asking you what exact benefits and/or cons have resulted from you getting married compared to if you didn't. i am listening to you because you are old - er and chances are you know more than me.

you said "if you can't understand it then pls don't ever do it." does that not sound condescending? are you not implying something?

back on topic, pls.

 

If you want something tangible; tax benefits.

Past that, what we gain from marriage is personal, it's not a universal phenomena. What raptor gained, may not be nearly the same as what magician gained. The one thing that everyone should but doesn't necessarily (because they made the wrong choice), is an anchor; and I don't mean that in a weighing you down, holding you back sort of way. I mean, someone that holds your hands and doesn't let you blow away in the winds of life, and vice versa. The joint roots, when one tree withers the other offers its lifeforce to help the other, and together they re-stabilize. Marriage, if making the right choice in partner, should give you everything on a silver platter; everything that carries with you from here to the next anyways. If you measure life in the tangible, get ready to be disappointed... married or not.

 

But why do you get these benefits? You get security and benefits due to commitment.

Think of it like a poker game.

Just saying you are all in isn't the same as putting your money on the table.

 

usually.[/quote]
It may be true that everything usually is done for gain (though you might have a hard time proving it), but that's not what I asked. You say that everything usually must be done for gain, then prompt me to provide a counterexample. Sorry, the ball's in your court. You proffered the thesis; it's up to you to prove it.
[/quote]


lol, this is fun.

there is no imperative that forces, so no, "must" is not the correct word.

so... can you name something you do because it gains you nothing?



whoa, Raptor. it wasn't personal. it wasn't an insult. it was a statement. do you disagree that your generation had much lower expectations than the current one? and if so, have you seen this generation? seriously, take it down a notch. i'm not saying you didn't have choices. hell, everyone knows ur a stud i'm saying that your generation was content and accepted that 2 people would just exist together and that love was some fairy tale that you didn't necessarily have to have. im not even saying that low expectations is a bad thing. we for sure, would not have such a high divorce rate if expectations were lower than they generally are now.

your answer of "39 yrs of marriage" is is vague because that phrase means nothing besides that it has been 39 yrs since you got married. i was asking you what exact benefits and/or cons have resulted from you getting married compared to if you didn't. i am listening to you because you are old - er and chances are you know more than me.

you said "if you can't understand it then pls don't ever do it." does that not sound condescending? are you not implying something?

back on topic, pls.
[/quote]

How is your generation different from mine? I have two masters degrees, I was a fighter pilot, I run a successful business, I really enjoy my work, and I feel like I'm doing something positive for God's green earth. How are your expectations greater than mine? After my hip replacement surgery, my wife devoted herself to taking care of me, including bathing me, putting on my shoes, carrying everything for me, being my driver, bringing home things I needed for work, and many other things. Do you have someone that would do that for you? (And don't say your mother.)

 

My thoughts? If I hear one more thing about the British royal wedding, I'm going to lose it...

 

it's not that i dont want to. i'm scared to because i see so many miserable married people out there.

the person I'm with is amazing, even with the bad parts of her, but im scared that transitioning will ruin things. i know for certain that having kids can be highly destructive (although not all the time). and i worry for the same reason about what i'm asking you guys for help with.
[/quote]

I think you're getting some undeserved shit in this thread, FWIW, because I completely understand where you're coming from.

I also feel like some of the married folks here are getting defensive because they feel like you are "attacking" the value of something that they hold dear.

Regardless, I think when you say, "I'm scared to(o) because i see so many miserable married people out there..." , what you need to realize is that it's not the *marriage* that makes them miserable, it's that a relationship - any relationship - is hard as hell. They'd be miserable whether they were married or not, most likely. The only problematic thing about marriage is that ending it requires more trouble and more sacrifice than just hitting the road if you are unmarried. Maybe that's the thing - getting married to someone is a hard and fast way of telling them that they mean enough that you are willing to bond yourself to them and you have made an affirmative choice to NOT bail at the first opportunity. Maybe there's a comfort and a meaning in that goes beyond what might be otherwise possible.

Finally, marriage does not have to automatically equal kids. There's absolutely nothing wrong with devoting your lives to each other and not wanting to spend 18 years putting each other second (but the two of you better agree on that )