How do you think it works? We don't get to choose if we go or not, it just happens. I was in the Army ~1 year before the war started, it had nothing to do with my decision to join. I was only on a two year enlistment, I didn't join to fight Iraq. I joined because I was curious and wanted the experience. I think you're blurring the lines. Once in, it's not like I can turn my back on it and decided what I want and don't want to do.

Besides, at the time, most everyone (at least in the States) were OK with going to war, it's later that we discovered that we had been misled - you can't forget that, just because we know what we do now, doesn't mean we knew that two years ago.

As far as the $$, I have to agree with you, even with combat pay, we get paid next to nothing compared to the other contractors there. Brown & Root (spelling might be off) did our food and mail delivery. The weeks that someone in any of their convoys got attacked....we'd have no mail. They don't deserve the $ if they can't deliver. It's a specific issue, I know, I just needed to rant about it . But the same reasoning could be applied to anything. The owner of a restaurant makes way more than one of his busboy's, and without the busboy, the work just wouldn't get done. They both work hard...it's just a different type of 'work' and a different sense of 'hard'. I'm not bitter about it, why should you be?

I didn't join the military to defend crooked politicians, but if that is part of the situation I'm put in, so be it. I still wear a uniform and I still believe in the little patches on each of my shoulders.

 

I believe this too unless UK were to go to war with China.

 

[QUOTE=yogi,Nov 16 2004, 04:22 PM] How do you think it works?

 

[QUOTE=yogi,Nov 16 2004, 04:22 PM] But the same reasoning could be applied to anything.

 

This thread will give you an idea about what combat is like....

https://www.s2ki.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=249213


The press interviews soldiers like it interviews tornado victims. They pick the barely 18 year olds from the sticks who joined to blow stuff up (like they go to the trailer parks when a tornado strikes). That is not a broad representation of the US Armed Forces as a whole.

Regardless of what the war detractors here, or anywhere else for that matter, think, our invasion of Iraq was just. It was as right to go into Iraq as it was to go into Afghanistan. The same people who said we wouldn't hand over control of Afghanistan (we did two days early), the same people who said there would be no elections in Afghanistan (there were), the same people who said we would have high casualties in an urban combat situation in Fallujah (we didn't), are the same people who are saying democracy won't work in this part of the world.

Guess what? It will. The human spirit longs to be free.

I, for one, am proud to have served in the US Army. I am proud of the things I have blown up and the people I have shot (some in the face) in the name of freedom. The purpose of war is to break things and conquer and defeat your enemy wholly. On a smaller scale, it is kill your enemy before he has a chance to kill you. War is not some f*cking cake walk in the park on a sunny June day. War is Hell. War is F'd up. Innocent people die in war. It cannot be avoided. You people have to have the larger picture in mind instead of focusing on single events (such as civilian deaths). We are in Iraq for not just one reason. We are not there only because of WMD's, and not only because Saddam was a prick and murdered 100's of thousands of his own citizens, and not only because he was friendly to terrorists, and not only for oil. We are there for all those reasons and then some.

That's right, I said oil IS one of the reasons we are there. So what? Our economy is feuled by oil and will be until the world runs out of it. Why shouldn't we sometimes do things to help us out in that respect. Without oil, the US ceases to function. Iraq having oil and maybe selling us some in the future at a decent price is just a pleasant bonus to LIBERATING MILLIONS OF PEOPLE FROM A TYRRANICAL, MURDEROUS, MANIACAL, DICTATOR WHO KILLED 100's OF THOUSANDS OF HIS OWN PEOPLE AND SWORE TO FIGHT THE US AND SEE ITS DESTRUCTION THROUGH THE USE OF CHEMICAL, BIOLOGICAL, AND/OR NUCLEAR WEAPONS. I still don't get how so many people who are against this war are in essence defending Saddam Hussein.

There will be elections in Iraq in January and their people will be that much closer to true freedom. It won't be perfect at first, it'll take a while. But it'll be worth it. We'll have a new friend in a dangerous part of the world. They will be able to experience a life they could never hope to have under the old ways. The same kind of thing happened here two hundred and some odd years ago.

Sorry for such a long post, but these people against our military's valiant actions get on my last nerve. They are dying, that's right, DYING (there's no coming back, this isn't a video game.) for the good of others. Totally selflessly giving the ultimate sacrifice of their OWN LIVES so that others may be free. Not for Haliburton or any other corporation. Don't fool yourselves, soldiers do it for the love of the flag, the nation, and for freedom. To think we are there for any other reason is, well, uninformed.

11 Bravo, bitches!

 

first arg...that article is weak..it quotes "experts" saying "10000 to 37000" "15000" "14000-16000" and then "100000"

what kind of data is this? you selectively choose to quote the 100000 figure tho all of the others point to much lower (even they cant possible be very accurate to determine)

and furturemore the data in these calculations is INDUCTED from only 1000 homes....what kind of sample selection is that for an entire country? If we did a sampling from my hometown of galveston "experts" could be "convincing" enough to say that teen pregnancy/stds/gang violence is incredibly high across the US...is that the case? No it just happens to be unusually high here.

Your evidence is weak and even all of your quoted experts cant even agree. The sample size is laughable and the fact they extrapolated the data out from such a small size should prevent it from being even considered.

Next point violated weapons is not equal to WMDs....the whole world believed he had WMDs, the iraqi people believed it, saddams army believed it etc.... so how can anyone still use it? because we thought it was true. Also many violated weapons HAVE been found. Mustard gas has been found, many missles that were banned have been found, non-wmd warheads have been found etc etc. Thus it is a fairly valid argument.

Majority of iraq IS relatively safe, you offer no counter evidence merely role your eyes....that arugment holds no water.

America is a country not living in fear, i live here and i dont think so... Thus my obervation overweighs your SPECULATION.

ps why didnt you respond to my first question?

This debate is weak, you offer ridiculous evidence which is easily thrown out through mere logical observations, fail to respond to ANY of my contentions, and finally keep resorting to ad-hominem attacks on other posters: do you expect anyone to take your debate seriously?

 

on why it doesn't make sense to you. I know they are completely different lines of work, but the reasoning is the same. The guys who almost always do the 'real' grunt work are towards the bottom of the food chain. I wasn't meaning to say the restaurant owners were the administration...they are more of the contractors and business men that are able to do their business in Iraq because we keep them safe. Hope that makes better sense and isn't as apple vs orangish.

Acutally, if a soldier messes up (and isn't killed or wounded), he ends up paying fines too and/or switched to another (lesser) position, possibly even losing rank. I don't think we're disagreeing (sp?), just have slightly different views. You could also argue that we knew what we were getting ourselves into signing up for the military...we knew the possibilities, and the wages, and took the chance. Like I said, I'm not complaining. Whoever says they joined the military for college money and ends up getting deployed into a combat zone...well, let's just say they're going to change their tune

 

[QUOTE=S2000_rider,Nov 16 2004, 03:57 PM] Knowing what you know now and the purpose behind the war, would you go back to Iraq and fight for Corporate America?

This has nothing to do with being a proud soldier and honestly, I respect you for that!

 

yogi! you write way too much! you can write a book on this subject but some people will still NEVER GET IT.

some people just have no sense of patriotism, honor, and the warrior code..

 

HAHAHa how hypocritical. You are the same type of person that wants the U.S. to stay out of everyone