Ok, that makes sense... the people who create these forums have every right to govern it as they wish.

However, I still have that question regarding "judgement". While I understand now (more or less ), "why" politics is not allowed, I don't understand how these same set of standards are not applied towards the existence of a "street encounters" forum. I mean, here is a forum set up for people to openly discuss breaking the law. I mean, if the same care is given to people's feelings about the politics, shouldn't it also be given to something such as speeding, reckless driving, and just basic law breaking? I will agree that not ALL, threads in that forum consists of law breaking stories (some are just people pushing certain limits on their cars, etc.), its the fact that such controversial topics are not only allowed, but by the very existence of such a forum, encouraged.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Strike
Russ,
I'm not going to get into the reasons politics is taboo here. That in of itself, is the sad part. That you feel it is "taboo" to discuss current events.
Suffice to say that the fact that there is a thread indicating a change in policies suggests that at one point political talk was allowed and for some reason that changed. What was the reason? Do the members here (current and present) not deserve to know? But I hate it when people get on this board and talk about "rights". You know what a right is? Don't attempt to define it for me Strike. I dare say the # of good men I've buried and dug out of destroyed barrracks due to terrorism did a fairly good job of defining the term for me. I called this place a "club" and common sense would indicate that each club has its rules and regulations. The RIGHT I believe I DO have is to ask WHY? Are you now implying that members shouldn't push for change? That it's a waste of time for us to ask moderators that during this incredibly pivotal time in our nation's history that the rules be relaxed? Are there some mythical stone tablets which govern the course of action within the community? Your attempt to define the word "rights" to the rest of us reminds me of a child who takes his basketball and goes home because the other kids are pissing him off. It's when someone who has been nice enough to set up a board that we can all enjoy (and most do for free) has the "right" to say no politics without a bunch of people bitching about it.
I can see where you are coming from since any discourse which is contrary to your own is labeled "bitching" though I find the fact that you're at odds with the other moderators amusing. You believe prior to the Aussie-US thread being removed, someone needs to use the "button" to report it yet Mindcore clearly states there is a no politics policy for all forums within S2Ki. Period. So why then, does the US-bashing thread still remain? I for one, enjoyed reading the banter and hope it remains. God forbid one of us realizes there are other people in the world with legit issues to discuss. To continue, you write: There are plenty of places you can go to discuss politics. Of course, but if I want to talk about getting drunk or playing strip twister, I sure know where to visit eh? The very fact that you encourage members to LEAVE s2ki.com to partake in a discussion about events which are currently shaping the course of world history is embarrassing. Especially so when one considers in its place, there are sooo many threads of relevence to chose from to "waste my time," as I noted the forum header suggests. If you feel the need to do it with the people from this board feel free to go out and buy your own bulletin board s/w, set up a server, and invite all of us to come and talk politics. Sort of like saying, "if you don't like the fact that I'm taking my basketball and going home, buy your own." Fair enough, but I find it a bit ironic that while one hand is on the political "mute" switch, the other is reaching out for my money. I guess the "club" rules weren't dictated to me before paying up. As a result of such policies of political thread censorship, I no longer choose to support the site financially and will be asking for a return of my membership fee. I will continue to visit as a "guest," knowing that when it comes time to discuss all that is S2000, this is the place to be but god forbid I want to take a moment away from carbon fiber doo-dads to express my opinion on a current event. With your best wishes behind me, I guess I can always log off s2ki.com and visit, oh...I don't know, say Girlswithstumps.com where I'm sure THEIR forum doesn't have a problem with the free flow of ideas, ya think? But please don't suggest your rights have been violated because this little car forum has a rule about no politics. It CEASES to become a CAR forum when I'm reading of Russian Mail Order Brides. Doesn't the irony escape you? Sorry if I sound harsh but your considering this policy a violation of your rights is a disservice to real rights issues.
Considering I've probably lived five days to your one, you might want to consider who you're pointing a finger to when opening up your dictionary of experience to explain to me what disservice to rights I've violated.

 

redleader - that argument was made when the policy to ban politics was made, and it was ignored then as it will likely be ignored now. There was even a politics sub-forum (of Off-topic) for a short time, but people who couldn't keep a level head still chose to get involved. There were a few bad apples who couldn't have a mature discussion on the 'real' problems of our world, and instead resorted to name-calling and slandering of other peoples' views and backgrounds. Personally, I enjoy discussing current issues with intelligent, thoughtful individuals - of which there are many on this forum - and it'd be nice if the 8 year olds could bite their tongue when someone has a view that isn't exactly in agreement with theirs.

Russ - To my knowledge, there are only 4 things that are forbidden on S2ki: Politics/current events, explicit photos (nudity), copyrighted photos (a la Wantone's Victoria Secret thread), and the S2KCA. Two of these make perfect sense, two don't, but that's the way it is. You ultimately have no rights here - Erik owns the site, he owns what you post, he makes the rules that the Moderators enforce, and neither logic nor fairness can alter his decisions. I'm not paying to be here, so I don't have a solid position to argue his policies from. However, I find it bizarre that he points to the number of visitors to this site as a selling point, yet encourages members to go elsewhere if they want to discuss what is going on in the world. And frankly, the current events have a lot more impact on my life than the power gain of a Spugen exhaust vs a Spoon exhaust.

Strike - I find it ironic that someone who goes out of his way to complain about limited censorship on another site would be such an adamant supporter of it here.

 

FWIW, I think in many cases, when politics are discussed worldwide and people speak of other countries with a forked tongue, they refer to the government of the country and its policies and not the people. During my military travels to probably 30 or 40 assorted countries I found it all too common to find those out of favor with American politics embracing visiting Americans. They disliked the government of the US but loved Americans. Not always the case but usually. Just my experience. I think political discussions get heated because a few literally take them personally, complain to the moderators and as a result, otherwise prudent and meaningful discourse vanishes. I won't argue that the owner of the site is free to handle his/her forum as they seem fit but apparently the few (who seem easily offended) have set the course for the many and this is the sad part of it. To relate this to automobile ownership, buying a car like the S2000 (to me) was a statement of individuality in of itself...an automobile that made no apologies for being as true to form as its original brother. Its message upon arrival was loud and clear. Buy this car and march to your own drum. Set trends, not follow them. Let all the no-torque naysayers whine while we have all the fun. How ironic then, that within a forum which celebrates such mechanical independence, we are told to march in literary lockstep, mindful of the curves in the road, otherwise known as "politics." Well, for me at least, avoiding the "curves" isn't what S2000 ownership is all about.

There...I guess I've written enough. I hope some of it made sense though looking back, I must admit the Victoria Secret's thread was a treat while it lasted!

 

it's a shame when a current events that can alter the makeship of the world are silenced, and take a backseat to the more jovial, insignificant things in life. i only wish i had gotten a chance to read/contribute to the now extinct thread. one reason i decided to become a member of this site was because of all the incessantly invaluable information that i was able to attain. it was my way of saying thanks. some of this information was car related, some was not. nevertheless, i have an uneasy feeling when information i may have very well deemed beneficial is censored, and therefore unaccessible. i also found strike's response as a moderator inappropriate, and unneccessarily indifferent. you should never tell a member of your organization to go elsewhere simply because they voice discontent over a policy, but what do i know? i'm just a lonlely member without my own bulletin board s/w or server...

 

I can see both viewpoints here, and as much as I don't like it, I have to agree with Mindcore's appraisal of the situation. As the saying goes, "Never discuss politics or religion with friends". This is exactly the problem, as these two issues are always divisive and some have reactions to either subject that are completely over the top. It's a shame that post policy has to accommodate the lowest common denominator, but that's reality. Politics (and religion) elicits responses from people that rapidly escalate out of control, so the most prudent solution is to not allow those discussions.

I really wish there were some way of having a "controlled" discussion of the impending war, because I am curious to hear the views of others, especially those from outside the USA, but in the end I understand that such a discussion would rapidly turn into a shouting match.

Hey does anyone know of any other places we can go to discuss this?
-Duncan

 

I was around when the decision was made to ban politics. The owners and moderators of this site put forth great effort to allow the political discussions to continue, but we as a membership weren't able to handle the rules. Every political thread degraded to name calling and threats. Long time forum "friends" became divided by political opinions and the quality of life on this board suffered.

All of the arguments members made above were made before, and are very valid and reasonable. Unfortunately, passion and the safe distance of a keyboard create an environment where a normally reasonable person looses all sense of maturity and manners.

I am assuming now, as in then, the moderators have neither the time nor energy to baby sit political discussions on an automotive-based message board.

 

Soulfly - My response here had nothing to do with my moderator status. I moderate here for FREE. I don't give up my "right" to have an opinion and express it just because I VOLUNTEER my time. I've said it before and I'll say it again. As soon as I'm asked to do so I'll give up the mod status.

WSB - The difference between what happens at S2KCA and here is that, as you pointed out, the rules are clearly defined here. You can't call it censorship if political posts are removed when you knew before you posted the political thread that it was forbidden. So if the Grand Poobah at S2KCA wants to post something saying that any criticism of S2KCA will immediately be removed great. However, he hasn't done that. There is no policy, no rule, banning that type of post. I'm sure the members of S2KCA would love to know that they can say anything they want except offer constructive criticism of their club or it's King. Fortunately, we don't have those rules here. Otherwise this thread would probably have been removed as it would have been at S2KCA.

Russ - You must share with me your youth serum. You have to be the oldest living person on this earth at 180 years old!!!

What I have trouble understanding is that there's been a note at the top of this forum indicating that politics was taboo for a long long time. Yet for some reason people have ignored it and are now offended when it's enforced, and being enforced as a direct result of complaints about the thread in question.

 

Very Interesting.

Russ and the points you have been making.

I could not have said it better myself.

I do have a comment to make, I find it very interesting that you can not talk about Politics, but you can talk about not having Politics and the Politics that come with banning Politics.

The reason I thought about that is because we are discussing politics of a Forum/Bulletin Board, I know it's not as touchy as World Politics, but I do find it interesting. I do see both sides and understand both sides.

I do have to point out, guest/members like me should really think of S2Ki.com more as a newspaper. You cannot put input into a Newspaper, but really only get news out of it. You do have to be selective on what news you get out because there is still ALOT of junk in a newspaper.

Is there a philosophy thread?

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Strike
[B]Russ - You must share with me your youth serum.