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From: New Jersey
Originally Posted by Ted H,Aug 14 2009, 08:57 AM
We were primarily discussing laptops, particularly in the $1,000-$2,000 range. There is more flexibility with Desktop prices, as they are easier to package/build.
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From: New Jersey
[QUOTE=HKStallion,Aug 14 2009, 09:04 AM] So apples response to the systems i listed is either
1. Our tower system is too good for you and its 4x more expensive
or
2. you can get an imac with a built in screen and non upgradeable form factor.
see to me that is horrible. and for reference, i have 2 laptops and a Dell inspiron 531s with dual core AMD processor and 3 GB ram. it is not cutting edge quad core, but i dont need it.
1. Our tower system is too good for you and its 4x more expensive
or
2. you can get an imac with a built in screen and non upgradeable form factor.
see to me that is horrible. and for reference, i have 2 laptops and a Dell inspiron 531s with dual core AMD processor and 3 GB ram. it is not cutting edge quad core, but i dont need it.
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From: New Jersey
And let me say for the record, I have a custom built i7 computer running at 4Ghz and vista (will use windows 7 when it comes out). I also have a vostro laptop running vista as well as a regular slow desktop running windows XP. Along with those, I have a macbook pro and a macmini.
I love and hate both operating systems and like to think I am not bias towards either one as I use both on a daily basis. My only reason for arguing against windows right now is the amount of BS circulating against OSX. If there were a bunch of Mac fanboi's here I would be defending windows...
I love and hate both operating systems and like to think I am not bias towards either one as I use both on a daily basis. My only reason for arguing against windows right now is the amount of BS circulating against OSX. If there were a bunch of Mac fanboi's here I would be defending windows...
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Originally Posted by bky,Aug 14 2009, 02:00 PM
That's because he doesn't have a DXF reader. None comes with a Mac (nor a PC for that matter). PDF compatibility is built-in on the Mac, which can create PDF files from any print dialog box. Opening PDF files on a Mac can be done without installing additional software, using Apple's Preview app. As far as I know, Windows XP cannot view a PDF natively.
The vendor with the Mac just wasn't competent. That happens on either platform. I have coworkers on XP that have trouble opening JPGs.
The vendor with the Mac just wasn't competent. That happens on either platform. I have coworkers on XP that have trouble opening JPGs.
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From: Raleigh
Originally Posted by Spec_Ops2087,Aug 14 2009, 10:00 AM
My point was it's 4 times the price because its a professional SERVER grade computer. It runs a completly different processor then the computers you mentioned. The only similarity is that the frequency is the same which, as I stated, means nothing now-a-days. Your also missing all the under-the-hood differences that actually justify the computers huge price difference. As I said, if you don't understand what I'm refering to, don't bother bringing up a debate on the MacPros price because people who do understand are just laughing.
All in all, yes the MacPro IS too good for you / me / and about 95% of the people out there. I don't run complicated 3d cad programs / simulation analysis programs / advanced coding programs / modeling programs / etc etc etc. I don't know why you feel so threatened about the fact that you don't NEED a professional computer and are compeled to jump on Apple's ass about it? Why not jump on dell's ass about there 20k+ rackmount servers? Why stop there? Why not jump on cisco's ass for their million+ dollar servers? Are you pissed at ferrari for selling a more expensive car that you don't need? I don't understand your arguement?
The imac is as upgradeable as any other OEM computer
. Sure if you build your own then things change but we're not talking about that...
Based on what you said, it seems a macMINI would be even better then your laptop. It's smaller / probably cheaper / and surely more powerful all while using less energy and staying cooler. Maybe you should look into one?
Can't answer the blu ray question but word on the street is that the next rendition of itunes will have blu ray support. We'll probably find out september.
Your arguement on sales is not true. Whenever you compare a product you must look at MSRP prices as they don't change. Sure a good sale could be a selling point but an accurate comparison of two products must be done with something concrete -- a sale here and there is not concrete.
macMINI is for you it seems....
All in all, yes the MacPro IS too good for you / me / and about 95% of the people out there. I don't run complicated 3d cad programs / simulation analysis programs / advanced coding programs / modeling programs / etc etc etc. I don't know why you feel so threatened about the fact that you don't NEED a professional computer and are compeled to jump on Apple's ass about it? Why not jump on dell's ass about there 20k+ rackmount servers? Why stop there? Why not jump on cisco's ass for their million+ dollar servers? Are you pissed at ferrari for selling a more expensive car that you don't need? I don't understand your arguement?
The imac is as upgradeable as any other OEM computer
. Sure if you build your own then things change but we're not talking about that...Based on what you said, it seems a macMINI would be even better then your laptop. It's smaller / probably cheaper / and surely more powerful all while using less energy and staying cooler. Maybe you should look into one?
Can't answer the blu ray question but word on the street is that the next rendition of itunes will have blu ray support. We'll probably find out september.
Your arguement on sales is not true. Whenever you compare a product you must look at MSRP prices as they don't change. Sure a good sale could be a selling point but an accurate comparison of two products must be done with something concrete -- a sale here and there is not concrete.
macMINI is for you it seems....
what can i get in a desktop computer?
PLEASE do not keep repeating the same thing. my request represents so many of the PC users that just cannot seem to get a good solution from apple.
a mac mini is not upgradeable at all. it only accepts USB peripherals, no PCI-e slots.
an imac is a laptop with an external keyboard. also not upgradeable.
in car terms. if i do not want a ferrari (your choice) what is available in the chevy-> cadillac range?
IF you cannot answer that without your long circular rants, you should understand that apple is ignoring a HUGE part of the market.
And even at MSRP, the most expensive system i listed was half of the mac tower.
Apple discussions on this board end up to be like pulling teeth sometimes. If any knowledgeable Apple people want to actually answer my question, it would be greatly appreciated. admitting apple is lacking in this category isnt going ot make steve hate you. i admitted in other threads that, price aside, Apple is a better choice for new users.
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I had this discussion on another board.
PCs if "equally" equipped are not much cheaper than a Mac.
However with a mac you ARE paying for stuff you may not need like unibody construction and an LED display.
PCs as stated here obviously have the advantage of providing cheaper computers that perform well for most people.
The only time I would recommend a Mac is if someone had disposable income and wanted to use a certain program like Logic. Plus they could use Windows if they wanted.
Personally I've used Windows and Dos way more than OS X/Unix. I'm just more comfortable with Windows. OS X has some cool features (I wish Win7 had virtual desktops or "spaces", and "spotlight" but that's it)
I like building computers, and being able to upgrade and that's great. A Mac then would be redundant addition unless I needed a specific Mac program, which I personally don't.
If Apple released a bunch of cheaply made ho-hum laptops at $600, they would sell, but they wouldn't be anything special. There's a reason why they don't.
PCs if "equally" equipped are not much cheaper than a Mac.
However with a mac you ARE paying for stuff you may not need like unibody construction and an LED display.
PCs as stated here obviously have the advantage of providing cheaper computers that perform well for most people.
The only time I would recommend a Mac is if someone had disposable income and wanted to use a certain program like Logic. Plus they could use Windows if they wanted.
Personally I've used Windows and Dos way more than OS X/Unix. I'm just more comfortable with Windows. OS X has some cool features (I wish Win7 had virtual desktops or "spaces", and "spotlight" but that's it)
I like building computers, and being able to upgrade and that's great. A Mac then would be redundant addition unless I needed a specific Mac program, which I personally don't.
If Apple released a bunch of cheaply made ho-hum laptops at $600, they would sell, but they wouldn't be anything special. There's a reason why they don't.
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From: New Jersey
Originally Posted by HKStallion,Aug 14 2009, 10:24 AM
So.......
what can i get in a desktop computer?
PLEASE do not keep repeating the same thing. my request represents so many of the PC users that just cannot seem to get a good solution from apple.
a mac mini is not upgradeable at all. it only accepts USB peripherals, no PCI-e slots.
an imac is a laptop with an external keyboard. also not upgradeable.
in car terms. if i do not want a ferrari (your choice) what is available in the chevy-> cadillac range?
IF you cannot answer that without your long circular rants, you should understand that apple is ignoring a HUGE part of the market.
And even at MSRP, the most expensive system i listed was half of the mac tower.
Apple discussions on this board end up to be like pulling teeth sometimes. If any knowledgeable Apple people want to actually answer my question, it would be greatly appreciated. admitting apple is lacking in this category isnt going ot make steve hate you. i admitted in other threads that, price aside, Apple is a better choice for new users.
what can i get in a desktop computer?
PLEASE do not keep repeating the same thing. my request represents so many of the PC users that just cannot seem to get a good solution from apple.
a mac mini is not upgradeable at all. it only accepts USB peripherals, no PCI-e slots.
an imac is a laptop with an external keyboard. also not upgradeable.
in car terms. if i do not want a ferrari (your choice) what is available in the chevy-> cadillac range?
IF you cannot answer that without your long circular rants, you should understand that apple is ignoring a HUGE part of the market.
And even at MSRP, the most expensive system i listed was half of the mac tower.
Apple discussions on this board end up to be like pulling teeth sometimes. If any knowledgeable Apple people want to actually answer my question, it would be greatly appreciated. admitting apple is lacking in this category isnt going ot make steve hate you. i admitted in other threads that, price aside, Apple is a better choice for new users.
Not to make excuses for their actions, but I believe they got it right. Now-a-days there is no real need for a large clunky desktop unless your a big customizer (gamers mostly) or are a professional (hence where the macpro comes into play). The majority of people in the 500-3k range just want a computer at works and doesn't need to be tinkered plain and simple.
What peripheral isn't USB / firewire? Old hardware -- that's about it. Anything new is USB / firewire / sata -- why continue to use old technology on basic computers?
I'd say apple is ignoring a very small market consistening of mostly gamers which is unfortunate but with all the billions they have in the bank -- it doesn't seem it be hurting them too much.
Once again, the macpro tower is out of the range of every single one of those computers you mentioned. It seems the only thing similar is that they are in tower form which is a terriable comparison.
Again I'm not defending them anymore then I would a PC of whatever brand.
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Originally Posted by Spec_Ops2087,Aug 14 2009, 09:00 AM
My point was it's 4 times the price because its a professional SERVER grade computer. It runs a completly different processor then the computers you mentioned. The only similarity is that the frequency is the same which, as I stated, means nothing now-a-days. Your also missing all the under-the-hood differences that actually justify the computers huge price difference. As I said, if you don't understand what I'm refering to, don't bother bringing up a debate on the MacPros price because people who do understand are just laughing.
All in all, yes the MacPro IS too good for you / me / and about 95% of the people out there. I don't run complicated 3d cad programs / simulation analysis programs / advanced coding programs / modeling programs / etc etc etc. I don't know why you feel so threatened about the fact that you don't NEED a professional computer and are compeled to jump on Apple's ass about it? Why not jump on dell's ass about there 20k+ rackmount servers? Why stop there? Why not jump on cisco's ass for their million+ dollar servers? Are you pissed at ferrari for selling a more expensive car that you don't need? I don't understand your arguement?
The imac is as upgradeable as any other OEM computer. Sure if you build your own then things change but we're not talking about that...
Based on what you said, it seems a macMINI would be even better then your laptop. It's smaller / probably cheaper / and surely more powerful all while using less energy and staying cooler. Maybe you should look into one?
Can't answer the blu ray question but word on the street is that the next rendition of itunes will have blu ray support. We'll probably find out september.
Your arguement on sales is not true. Whenever you compare a product you must look at MSRP prices as they don't change. Sure a good sale could be a selling point but an accurate comparison of two products must be done with something concrete -- a sale here and there is not concrete.
macMINI is for you it seems....
All in all, yes the MacPro IS too good for you / me / and about 95% of the people out there. I don't run complicated 3d cad programs / simulation analysis programs / advanced coding programs / modeling programs / etc etc etc. I don't know why you feel so threatened about the fact that you don't NEED a professional computer and are compeled to jump on Apple's ass about it? Why not jump on dell's ass about there 20k+ rackmount servers? Why stop there? Why not jump on cisco's ass for their million+ dollar servers? Are you pissed at ferrari for selling a more expensive car that you don't need? I don't understand your arguement?
The imac is as upgradeable as any other OEM computer
. Sure if you build your own then things change but we're not talking about that...Based on what you said, it seems a macMINI would be even better then your laptop. It's smaller / probably cheaper / and surely more powerful all while using less energy and staying cooler. Maybe you should look into one?
Can't answer the blu ray question but word on the street is that the next rendition of itunes will have blu ray support. We'll probably find out september.
Your arguement on sales is not true. Whenever you compare a product you must look at MSRP prices as they don't change. Sure a good sale could be a selling point but an accurate comparison of two products must be done with something concrete -- a sale here and there is not concrete.
macMINI is for you it seems....
My complaints about Apple, the Company can be surmised as followed:
-- Poor Customer Service
-- Overcharging on Customer Service
-- Brazen Douche-baggery in the store. (MAC "Genius" & this guy--not sure if that was an official designation or his own--being a ninja)
My Subjective Opinions:
-- Up to $2,000 (At least), I feel PC offers more bang for your buck.
-- I don't like OS X, it feels like someone has put kiddy-locks on all the cabinets.
That being said, I have made careful sure to include in every post that I don't dislike or harbor hate for the product itself. My story was to illustrate that I nearly bought one myself.
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Saki, Zin and Mac are right, AFIC.
Let's go to the OP. 7 looks good, I run Vista on my PCs and it works quite well, way better than XT, which I still run on work laptops. XT was great compared to most earlier versions, exc NT which was by the far the best OS in its day.
Vista is now catching up to my OSX server of 1999.
Buy a mac today and you get a high quality, integrated system. The system includes software/hardware compatability and a graphical OS. It may be slightly more expensive in some cases, even in other cases. BFD
Buy a wintel and you *can* get a custom screamer system for less than 2k. You do have more up front customization options, and you need them to ensure compatibility and reliability.
I run these and the penguin for work, home, 24/7 security, and play, and each has their strength and weakness. Like arguing AMD and Intel. Today it IS in macs favor, and 5 years from now it will be something else.
Let's go to the OP. 7 looks good, I run Vista on my PCs and it works quite well, way better than XT, which I still run on work laptops. XT was great compared to most earlier versions, exc NT which was by the far the best OS in its day.
Vista is now catching up to my OSX server of 1999.
Buy a mac today and you get a high quality, integrated system. The system includes software/hardware compatability and a graphical OS. It may be slightly more expensive in some cases, even in other cases. BFD
Buy a wintel and you *can* get a custom screamer system for less than 2k. You do have more up front customization options, and you need them to ensure compatibility and reliability.
I run these and the penguin for work, home, 24/7 security, and play, and each has their strength and weakness. Like arguing AMD and Intel. Today it IS in macs favor, and 5 years from now it will be something else.
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From: panhandle state
[QUOTE=Saki GT,Aug 13 2009, 01:00 PM] You didn't pull a very good comparison if that's what you got - you overlooked a lot of what a Mac comes with that you need to add to a Dell to get close.