windows 7
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From: Ocean Springs
There's definitely a price advantage at the low end of the market: under $1000 there is much more selection for Wintel machines than Macs. On the mid-upper range, I've found Macs to be very competitive when compared to good quality hardware from stylish model ranges.
One the upper end, the Macs are actually cheaper. Price out an honest quad Xeon workstation from Apple, Dell, and HP and the Apple is cheaper (as long as you avoid Apple's stupid RAM pricing).
I just went through a detailed cost breakdown before ordering my MacBook Pro 17 last month. Dell's Precision Laptops were the only things with similar levels of horsepower (3.06Ghz Core 2 Duo), but they cost several hundred dollars more, had plastic cases (compared to Apple's billet aluminum), nearly double the thickness, and a hefty 2 lbs heavier. For all that, Dell didn't make battery life claims but based on reviews I'm guessing 2 hours on the outside. After almost 2 months on my MBP17, I'm getting 5-7 hours of REAL WORLD use from a single charge. You can't get that combination anywhere in the Windows world, unless you buy the Apple and run Windows with Bootcamp. In the $3000+ range, Mac laptops & desktops are a better value.
Before anyone says it, I called my Dell rep to discuss the 17" Vostros. I explained what I was doing (heavy DTP work, desktop replacement, and road-warrior duty), and he told me not to consider the Vostro. His exact words were "you won't be happy". The Vostro is an "affordable consumer-grade laptop" that wasn't a good fit for my needs. He told me the Precision or Alienware line had the torque I needed, but weren't very portable.
There's a reason why I have an S2000 and not a cheaper-but-faster-SRT4. If you can't understand that, then you probably won't understand Apple's either. Enjoy your Neons.
One the upper end, the Macs are actually cheaper. Price out an honest quad Xeon workstation from Apple, Dell, and HP and the Apple is cheaper (as long as you avoid Apple's stupid RAM pricing).
I just went through a detailed cost breakdown before ordering my MacBook Pro 17 last month. Dell's Precision Laptops were the only things with similar levels of horsepower (3.06Ghz Core 2 Duo), but they cost several hundred dollars more, had plastic cases (compared to Apple's billet aluminum), nearly double the thickness, and a hefty 2 lbs heavier. For all that, Dell didn't make battery life claims but based on reviews I'm guessing 2 hours on the outside. After almost 2 months on my MBP17, I'm getting 5-7 hours of REAL WORLD use from a single charge. You can't get that combination anywhere in the Windows world, unless you buy the Apple and run Windows with Bootcamp. In the $3000+ range, Mac laptops & desktops are a better value.
Before anyone says it, I called my Dell rep to discuss the 17" Vostros. I explained what I was doing (heavy DTP work, desktop replacement, and road-warrior duty), and he told me not to consider the Vostro. His exact words were "you won't be happy". The Vostro is an "affordable consumer-grade laptop" that wasn't a good fit for my needs. He told me the Precision or Alienware line had the torque I needed, but weren't very portable.
There's a reason why I have an S2000 and not a cheaper-but-faster-SRT4. If you can't understand that, then you probably won't understand Apple's either. Enjoy your Neons.
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From: Jersey City, NJ
Originally Posted by bky,Aug 13 2009, 10:58 PM
There's definitely a price advantage at the low end of the market: under $1000 there is much more selection for Wintel machines than Macs. On the mid-upper range, I've found Macs to be very competitive when compared to good quality hardware from stylish model ranges.
One the upper end, the Macs are actually cheaper. Price out an honest quad Xeon workstation from Apple, Dell, and HP and the Apple is cheaper (as long as you avoid Apple's stupid RAM pricing).
I just went through a detailed cost breakdown before ordering my MacBook Pro 17 last month. Dell's Precision Laptops were the only things with similar levels of horsepower (3.06Ghz Core 2 Duo), but they cost several hundred dollars more, had plastic cases (compared to Apple's billet aluminum), nearly double the thickness, and a hefty 2 lbs heavier. For all that, Dell didn't make battery life claims but based on reviews I'm guessing 2 hours on the outside. After almost 2 months on my MBP17, I'm getting 5-7 hours of REAL WORLD use from a single charge. You can't get that combination anywhere in the Windows world, unless you buy the Apple and run Windows with Bootcamp. In the $3000+ range, Mac laptops & desktops are a better value.
Before anyone says it, I called my Dell rep to discuss the 17" Vostros. I explained what I was doing (heavy DTP work, desktop replacement, and road-warrior duty), and he told me not to consider the Vostro. His exact words were "you won't be happy". The Vostro is an "affordable consumer-grade laptop" that wasn't a good fit for my needs. He told me the Precision or Alienware line had the torque I needed, but weren't very portable.
There's a reason why I have an S2000 and not a cheaper-but-faster-SRT4. If you can't understand that, then you probably won't understand Apple's either. Enjoy your Neons.
One the upper end, the Macs are actually cheaper. Price out an honest quad Xeon workstation from Apple, Dell, and HP and the Apple is cheaper (as long as you avoid Apple's stupid RAM pricing).
I just went through a detailed cost breakdown before ordering my MacBook Pro 17 last month. Dell's Precision Laptops were the only things with similar levels of horsepower (3.06Ghz Core 2 Duo), but they cost several hundred dollars more, had plastic cases (compared to Apple's billet aluminum), nearly double the thickness, and a hefty 2 lbs heavier. For all that, Dell didn't make battery life claims but based on reviews I'm guessing 2 hours on the outside. After almost 2 months on my MBP17, I'm getting 5-7 hours of REAL WORLD use from a single charge. You can't get that combination anywhere in the Windows world, unless you buy the Apple and run Windows with Bootcamp. In the $3000+ range, Mac laptops & desktops are a better value.
Before anyone says it, I called my Dell rep to discuss the 17" Vostros. I explained what I was doing (heavy DTP work, desktop replacement, and road-warrior duty), and he told me not to consider the Vostro. His exact words were "you won't be happy". The Vostro is an "affordable consumer-grade laptop" that wasn't a good fit for my needs. He told me the Precision or Alienware line had the torque I needed, but weren't very portable.
There's a reason why I have an S2000 and not a cheaper-but-faster-SRT4. If you can't understand that, then you probably won't understand Apple's either. Enjoy your Neons.
Frankly, I think it's daft that many of you are arguing that MAC is cheaper. Be reasonable and look at the economics of the situations. You have a Niche manufacturer selling to a much smaller group of people. It makes sense that it costs more.
Saki-- I'm not sure what else to give you in that price out. All of your complaints, I fixed (and more) in my price out. I slapped on the biggest processor--two of the biggest batteries--and even a back-lit keyboard. It's still $900, in comparison with that MacBook Pros, which are ~$1500.
There's nothing wrong with Macs, I think they're nice looking, and their software works well for many people--I just don't like it. That being said, you're paying a premium for a limited sale item. That's okay if that's what you want, but please don't try to convince me you're getting the "better option" for less.
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I have an anecdote for those PC fans.
The company I work for manufactures oilfield equipment; we sub out all of our laser cutting work. A new vendor we were trying out couldn't open a .dxf file (DXF in this industry is like JPEG is to pictures). Needless to say I was shocked. This guy had me email him a pdf version of the file, but he couldn't even open that.
The whole time he kept telling me, "I have a MAC". He was using it as an excuse, but at the same time he was bragging about it.
The company I work for manufactures oilfield equipment; we sub out all of our laser cutting work. A new vendor we were trying out couldn't open a .dxf file (DXF in this industry is like JPEG is to pictures). Needless to say I was shocked. This guy had me email him a pdf version of the file, but he couldn't even open that.
The whole time he kept telling me, "I have a MAC". He was using it as an excuse, but at the same time he was bragging about it.
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From: Ocean Springs
Originally Posted by Ted H,Aug 14 2009, 06:59 AM
Frankly, I think it's daft that many of you are arguing that MAC is cheaper. Be reasonable and look at the economics of the situations. You have a Niche manufacturer selling to a much smaller group of people. It makes sense that it costs more.......That's okay if that's what you want, but please don't try to convince me you're getting the "better option" for less.
I'm not stating an opinion about the prices. Go to Apple and price a 4-way or 8-way Xeon desktop or 17" workstation/laptop. Then go to Dell and build the same machine.
If you really want an eye opener, price a 1U rackmount PowerEdge to an Apple xServe with the same hardware. It's really quite interesting.
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From: Jersey City, NJ
Originally Posted by bky,Aug 14 2009, 07:55 AM
How is it daft if the Apple is actually cheaper?
I'm not stating an opinion about the prices. Go to Apple and price a 4-way or 8-way Xeon desktop or 17" workstation/laptop. Then go to Dell and build the same machine.
If you really want an eye opener, price a 1U rackmount PowerEdge to an Apple xServe with the same hardware. It's really quite interesting.
I'm not stating an opinion about the prices. Go to Apple and price a 4-way or 8-way Xeon desktop or 17" workstation/laptop. Then go to Dell and build the same machine.
If you really want an eye opener, price a 1U rackmount PowerEdge to an Apple xServe with the same hardware. It's really quite interesting.
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From: Ocean Springs
Originally Posted by Incubus,Aug 14 2009, 07:32 AM
I have an anecdote for those PC fans.
The company I work for manufactures oilfield equipment; we sub out all of our laser cutting work. A new vendor we were trying out couldn't open a .dxf file (DXF in this industry is like JPEG is to pictures). Needless to say I was shocked. This guy had me email him a pdf version of the file, but he couldn't even open that.
The whole time he kept telling me, "I have a MAC". He was using it as an excuse, but at the same time he was bragging about it.
The company I work for manufactures oilfield equipment; we sub out all of our laser cutting work. A new vendor we were trying out couldn't open a .dxf file (DXF in this industry is like JPEG is to pictures). Needless to say I was shocked. This guy had me email him a pdf version of the file, but he couldn't even open that.
The whole time he kept telling me, "I have a MAC". He was using it as an excuse, but at the same time he was bragging about it.
The vendor with the Mac just wasn't competent. That happens on either platform. I have coworkers on XP that have trouble opening JPGs.
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From: Raleigh
Originally Posted by Spec_Ops2087,Aug 13 2009, 07:32 PM
The MacPro is out of each of those computers league. Compare an imac to those computers (starts at ~1,200). Also add back in discounts -- we must compare MSRP prices as that's the only way to be consistent. Once you add that in, the imac is the same price if not cheaper 
You can't look at just specs for "high end Professional" computers (aka MacPro). 2Ghz on computer A is surely not 2Ghz on computer B. If you can't understand why the macpro is so expensive then don't even try to argue against it.
You can't look at just specs for "high end Professional" computers (aka MacPro). 2Ghz on computer A is surely not 2Ghz on computer B. If you can't understand why the macpro is so expensive then don't even try to argue against it.
1. Our tower system is too good for you and its 4x more expensive
or
2. you can get an imac with a built in screen and non upgradeable form factor.
see to me that is horrible. and for reference, i have 2 laptops and a Dell inspiron 531s with dual core AMD processor and 3 GB ram. it is not cutting edge quad core, but i dont need it. it is my HTPC/file server for my house. it records 2 channels of OTA HDTV, downloads all of my torrents. Plays those torrents and other media in Vista Media Center ( THE best 10 foot interface software available) serves HD material through my network, backs up all of my PCs. all while snuggled away in a sleek wall mounted TV stand and connected to my 32" LCD tv as its main display so my family can watch and record tv.
So no, i do not want an Imac, and yes, i do not need a super duper awesome mac pro. i need a computer that is not a laptop to be able to handle multiple scnarios based on what i want it to do.
loaded question. when in want to add bluray to my htpc for storage and playback, what does apple have for me there? of course i know that the Steve doesnt like it so it is not possible.
and you CAN compare the prices i quoted with apple MSRP, because those incentives are always there in one form or another. just like you dont compare MSPR of chevy to honda, because the chevy always has cash on the hood.
so again. what does apple have for me?????
anyone??