Sabre

Ok guys, so here's the deal.

After the rulz thread and much discussion, plus Brandon's PM's to Larry and his post, Larry and I have been discussing it behind the scenes looking to set up a vote on reviewing/revising the FS rules a bit.

We have also talked about the badging requirement and ways we could alter that as an alternative to changing the sale rules. One thought that has been mentioned in the past is giving badged members the opportunity to "vouch" for a non-badged member for those who do not/can not attend the official events.

Note that I, personally, am not a fan of the idea of changing both the FS rule and the Badging rule, as it basically just "opens the floodgates" to anyone out there to start joining up/selling parts that may/may not be legitimate.

Please read through this entire post carefully to make sure you understand ALL the options. Feel free to discuss the options here. If you have any questions, ask them. Once you have made a decision on what you think should happen, PM me your decision.

This is Larry's and my thoughts on the options and our views on them:

1) We leave the rules the same as they are.
This has seemed to minimize/stop the string of S2k thefts in the region. This, in turn, keeps one option closed to those thieves to sell parts (yes, they still have ebay/CL). It helps minimize risky sales because we know all the the people selling because of the badging requirement. We have their personal information in our roster so we can attempt to get ahold of them if there is a problem and help settle the transaction.

1a) We leave the rules as they are, but alter the badging requirement to make it easier to become a badged member.
My thought is that if 3-4 badged members are willing to put their own reputations "on the line", they can vouch for a non-badged member and we will badge them. Having a 3-4 member requirement would prevent one person vouching for their buddy, who then vouches for theirs, etc etc. This will make it easier for those who do not/can not attend the official events. (i.e. P2 smacking his car to pieces on St. Helens this weekend due to being lowered and having to avoid all the sinkholes). This would also allow the people who prefer the lunch/dinner/mod-meets over drives to become badged more easily.

2) We strip the badging requirement for the FS forum.
Anyone can post WTB and FS posts with no restriction. With that, comes absolutely NO intervention/moderation/arbitration from the COs. We will simply not get involved. We will not vouch for a seller, verify the parts are legitimate for a buyer, or get involved if a sale goes south. Strictly Buyer Beware, as Brandon put it. This also *could* result in thefts picking back up on S2ks. If that happens, we may move on to option 3...

3) We get rid of the FS forum entirely and leave it to the main S2ki sale forum.
This means you have to buy a membership to sell, and you would not have a venue locally on the forum. You COULD add a link to your sale thread in your signature, however.

Share your thoughts, PM me your vote, and I will tally them up. Voting will end on Sept 22nd. I will be preparing to depart for Homecoming then, so votes will be tallied when I return on the 29th. Any votes cast after the 22nd will be discarded and not counted.

This will be a majority vote, however a revote on the most popular options will occure if two of the options are very closely tallied.


Aaron

mezzfin

Vote is for #1. There are plenty of options to buy/sell outside of this forum, and the FS forum we have is working fine, right? I haven't seen one post complaining of the lack of non-badged buying opportunities. In the world of caveat emptor, we are just caveat-ing on behalf of the emptors. There exists the little used caveat venditor, but I haven't seen abuse of the venditors much

Sabre

I'll make my "vote" public by saying that I like option 1a.

Here's my reasoning for liking that option:

It still helps protect our forum buyers/sellers, we (The COs) could assist if the need arises, but it makes it easier for people to attend an event/get badged without having to turn their life upside-down to do so.

People like Brandon (mrcbr600) and Roger (SickShift) work Saturdays so they cant easily attend our official events. Being able to attend a meet during the week would allow them to get to know some of the existing members who could then vouch that they're good guys and enthusiastic about the group.

For instance, Brandon could then post a thread (I'd like a badge) and people could post in that thread "Yeah, he deserves one". He gets a few agreements, and he'd get badged. Then he's not only able to sell, he's badged and "official" as it were. People know him and he knows them.

In my mind, it's the best of both worlds.

Sabre

Make sure you PM me your vote too, John, so I can tally it

EVAN&MONICA

While I appreciate our CO's letting everyone have their say, I think this system is flawed, below I will try to explain how I see its flaws and how I would think it be improved upon.

The deck is stacked in this vote against anyone who wants change, even if only 30% of the group wants things to stay the same they have a really good chance to keep them that way since the other 70% will have their votes for change split between the other 3 option.

Example
1Republican vs 1Democrate : you can bet on both of these.. (this seems fair to say)
Example
1Republican Vs 3 seperate Democrates: It would only be wise to bet on the Republican.. (thats how our vote looks)

I think this would be lesss of a blind vote if it only had 2 options
1 Remain the same, exactly the same.
or
2 Chang things eventually but have some debate over how to change them until there is an majority agreement.

Sabre

Evan, your point is understood, but it seems to me:

No one in their right mind would vote for option 3 (I think? )

I'll tell you what, I'll change the majority restriction on the main post, once I get the votes tallied, if two options are really close, I'll do a re-vote on those.

If we have a 13/11/4, I'll do a revote on the 13/11 since the 4 obviously wasnt very popular.

if we end up with a 22/4/3, it wouldnt have mattered anyway

Fair enough?

mysilvers2k

Aaron, I know that you've always thought that I was "out of my mind", so why should this occasion be different.

I vote for #3 - get rid of the FS thread

Here's my reason: The S2ki mothership does not condone it, but out of the kindness of our CO's heart, they let us have it with limited rules. Which is VERY generous. Given that, it has been a source of complaints in one way or another over the past few years. I think that the "mothership" was trying to protect the forums from this when they said that they didn't want us all to have our own "FS" thread. Maybe they are right in this case.

I am on this forum for fun, I have made some GREAT friends, and there's nothing better than having fun with all of you. This thread seems to divide us more than anything else on the forum, so I say just get rid of it. The ones that look to complain about getting rid of it can complain to the S2ki mothership for not condoning it in the first place, or become paid members to list their products.

Sabre

It's one of your most endearing traits, Amy.

Tony_05s2k

1a!!

1-2 vouches would be pointless. Minimum of 3 makes it fair enough!
Getting rid of the FS/WTB section would suck since I'm sure mamy people have made great deals/buys on here including my self, though very small stuff on my side.

once again 1a!!

Now will anyone vouch for me

G

Tony, you already have a badge.m