this is getting quite intense..... Personally only being on here for a year I would like to put in my .02
I came from vwvortex and, think that rules on this site are actually pretty inline with what you may find with any loose "enthusiast site" if you will. the vortex has loads of people who are very unkind and complete jerks. I for one think that having some decent rules and a kind of code of conduct seem that this is no petty civic forum. More for adults who understand why things are the way they are.

On the flip side I always found it odd that other types of cars weren't as welcomed as I was previously used to in the vw world. after talking with the Co's and asking why that was they responded: when we have a group of 20+ cars we can sometimes become a burden on smaller towns. We can clog traffic and cause issues. this is why we try to keep our drives limited in size. Also When you throw other cars in the mix....For example someone is driving a civic they need to push themselves harder just to keep up.

First off im all for driving hella fast but, i don't want someone to be slowing down my pace and/or wreck because they aren't as well equipped. common sense would venture to say that it would be their problem for not driving within there limits. But in the real world people don't always work that way.

Long story short Co's don't make rules to kill the fun. They also are putting their names on the line when they organize a drive. having order during a g2g is a whole lot better than a free for all.... fwiw

 

Thanks Justin! Well said!

Larry

 

Ok, I gotta say something here.

I think the time and effort that the CO's put into these drives to make them fun for all, to arrive on time to our destinations and meals, the organization that they do and the countless hours of finding the roads and routes to make these events happen is OUTSTANDING!!
If you haven't been on an event lately, then you need to try it. I have never seen anyone disgruntled after an event that Larry/Aaron put together (just look at the posts after an event).
These guys spend endless hours of their own time putting these things together. They are unsung heros and I applaud all of their efforts. Every detail is accounted for. That is hard to do.

If you want a no "rulz" event, then put one together on your own time. But please don't criticize our CO's for making all our events the best they can be. These are well thought out drives and they are a pleasure to be on.

Whew! I'm done.

 

Not sure where you got that idea Aaron, I don't even know you other than the few PM's we have sent back and forth. Having said that, I think you and Larry know I agree with everything said in this post. Me and Larry never really saw eye to eye. However, I put that aside when I made my recommendations to Jerry Peterson for who should take over my spot as CO when I left. I told him that I thought the Portland area would benefit from 2 CO's and I knew Larry would do a good job, I just didn't realize it would set him off on his power trip of implementing all of these rules. I also suggested that Brandon (Bz2005s2k) take the second (new) co spot. Being located in Bend I was hoping he would be able to stir up some interest in those parts. I am not sure when everything around here changed. After I sold my 2nd S I was pretty much MIA from this forum. I would still check in from time to time to see what was going on, check out pictures from drives and such. I knew that I would be in the market for another S sometime in the future, just wasn't sure when so I never really posted. It must have been after Brandon left that things took a turn for the worse. Here is a PM from Brandon that led me to believe this forum was in good hands when I left:



To me it was all about sharing a mutual interest with a group of friends, new and old. Now it just seems like its all about these rules. It is ridiculous that a past or future s2000 owner can't tag along on a drive. It is ridiculous that a past CO who now owns his 3rd s2000 can't post a VooDoo shift knob for sale here even though I meet every single one of Larry's s2ki Oregon badge "requirements", which he will not acknowledge because he holds a grudge against me for some unknown reason. All of this being said, I understand that the majority of the people here like the way things are run. It seems like the drives are great and very well organized, it is just something I choose not to be a part of anymore, and it seems as if I am not alone.

 

 

Aaron-

First and foremost.. this thread is not to discredit anything you have done for this site and for the people here in Oregon.

These are a few simple opinions that even though I have been MIA (which doesn't make one bit of a difference) for a years I wanted to share.

Clearly you have some strong support from some of the members and there is also some members here who strongly disagree with some things. Have you and Larry (which being the main CO here... curious why he hasn't chimed in more and left all the dirty work to you) thought about starting threads or polls to get everyones opinion on some of these rules. Obviously as the CO's you guys have the ultimate decision but on the flip side don't you think it would be nice to have the input of your fellow forum buddies?

Also the reply about mods banning peeps and CO's not having the power... there is clearly a good reason for that.

I certainly do not think that a forum site of this statue should be a free rain type site but I also think that if I were brand new coming into this forum and read all the stickies I would have sh!t my pants and found a new forum.

You are absolutely correct on the drives... If we the non powerful people on this forum site want to organize a drive we certainly can at our own will (and trust me at his been done). but just as Spa said in the last post what is the problem with people that have a non S who is a past owner or possibly someone who is looking to purchase on in the future tag along? I mean are the Honda S2000 owners so damn crowned up on themselves that another vehicle along the same lines cant join?


Again - Aaron this thread was not to dis respect you and I am sure you put in much time to this. BUT as I have been around a long time (although MIA for quite a while) I noticed many changes that I thought were... well... rediculous so I thought I speak my opinion and I appreciate your feedback.

 

This forum is a community forum, and I'd like to weigh in a little bit.

I think the issues that everyone is talking about aren't one in the same, one issue are the rules and stipulations for the drives.

The 2nd is how the Oregon forum is governed.

Does that seem pretty fair to say?

With that said, there is a definite division between the older generation on the site and the younger generation. There doesn't seem to be any middle ground. That doesn't necessarily mean it's a bad thing either. Community drives with one another, sharing great roads and the occasional meal is fun.

So is gathering together in a large group of s2000's and talking about what kind of modifications you're looking at getting, or helping a fellow member with information on what would work best with their car.

Aaron, I wanted to touch on a point you had made about it being rediculous to be afraid to post something in here. I am speaking for myself here, but some things I do not want to post for fear of it being looked at negatively. It seems like I shouldn't have to feel that way but I do based on past experiences.

And yes, you and I have discussed things privately on the phone, and while this isn't your job, you listened to my views on things and gave a fair opinion. I value that a lot that you took the time to hear out a frustrated community member

You know I have a lot of respect for you and Larry. I don't want either of you guys going anywhere.

Obviously spapdx and the 05deuce were way before my time, and it seems like most of yours, but for us "newbies" it does seem like the activity on the forum has dropped off considerably since I joined, even though I think we have the most s2000 owners on this forum...ever!

I think it would be great if we could bridge the gap more than has been done.

 

There are plenty of groups where mixed makes are welcome. This group is for S2000s only. If that's your biggest hang-up with our rules why don't you host an event and invite the people you'd like to have attend. Lots of the Oregon S2000 people would love to join you. Also, many of them would not.

It's almost as if you're unaware of single-make groups, of which there are many, and this is one.

Have you checked other S2kI regional rules to see what they do about allowing non-members?

 

I never said you should have to own a S to be a member and if anyone took it that way I am sorry. What I think is rediculous is the fact you have to be a member to do anything on here. Such as sell something.... that is what I do not agree with. Please go back and read the original post a second time.

 

OK, let’s take your points one by one.

Although you both admit you have not participated in this forum in any way for years, you pop onto the scene and start complaining about our “rules” and the fact that in the old days there were no “rules”.

Aaron and my job is that of moderator. We are here to keep peace on the forum and to facilitate the posts as they relate to S2000 ownership. That’s it. There is no “power trip”.

We are also charged with the duty of carrying out the rules and guidelines of S2KI (the mother-ship). Yes, they do have rules. And those members that act out on the forums are often censured or banned. Our local forum is pretty civilized so we’ve never even come close to having to do that.

One of the “rules” of S2KI (the mother-ship) is that nothing can be sold on the local level (regional) forums. In order to sell things you first must be a paid member of S2KI and then you can only sell in the main For Sale and Want To Buy forum. That is their rule, not ours.

In spite of that Aaron and I have decided to loosen up that rule and allow sales in our dedicated FS and WTB thread. A forum member does not have to be a paid member of S2KI, but they do need to be badged. We think that is a pretty reasonable compromise. And it is not a “rule”, but actually a relaxing of the forum requirement.

Take a look around at the other regions to see how they handle this. Many deny any sales on their forum. Take a look at the PacNW forum. They have the same FS & WTB requirements that we do.

So, we aren’t being overly restrictive by any means.

As far as I know those are the only “rules” we enforce.

Apparently unbeknownst to you, a few years back S2KI (the mother-ship) pulled the plug on drives. They no longer sanction drives and they no longer provide liability insurance for regional drives. They just announced they were out of that business.

Aaron and I wanted to continue putting on drives for the group. (By the way this IS the “S2000 Owner’s Forum”, not the “All–Inclusive Car Enthusiasts Forum”)

So independently of S2KI, Aaron and I put on drives. The buck stops with us on these drives, so we do have rules in place for the participants. Common sense things like ensuring that the drivers have a valid driver’s license. And that they are currently covered by car insurance. From there, we ensure that people drive safely for their, our and other’s benefit and that our participants aren’t driving under the influence and are not driving “crazy”, jeopardizing others or damaging our reputation for putting on safe and fun drives.

Now if you can’t live with those rules, then you can’t go on our drives. Period. There’s no debating that.

If driving sensibly is not your style, then YOU plan a drive. It can have no rules and it be a free-for-all. That is your business. We will allow, and encourage you to post your drive information on the forum. And, you can count on the fact that Aaron and I will not be sitting back at our computer taking pot-shots at what you do or how you do it.

This forum may not be the unruly “wild-west” forum of the past. We’ve moved beyond that.

Larry