Battle of the $1200 coilover!
06-18-2015, 07:45 AM
#51
Internals of the PSS are the same as any 46mm Bilstein, aluminum or steel bodies. The PSS dampers use an 8mm piston bore and one of the digressive bilstein pistons (can't remember which one). There is a bilstein manual with all sorts of shim stack arrangements for both digressive and linear valving.
Second, the entire Bilstein range of standard shim stacks in their tuning manual can be downloaded here: http://www.bilsteinu...t-information/. The PDF is off of scans and is broken down into sections.
Finally, if someone was ambitious enough to make the top adapter to a spherical bearing eye, they could probably make the bottom clevis, machine the shock bottom, and have the clevis welded on. It would all be expensive to the point that triple adjustable Ohlins TTX may be cheaper. Bilstein sells their MDS shocks with the double adjuster for the Subaru BRZ; a set lists for $6000.
06-18-2015, 09:34 AM
#52
Most STR autox setups (besides those that casually autox) are somewhere around 800F/650R and up for rates. That is my setup, but I still like driving it on the street a good amount. Some are running much higher rates (upwards of 1000 lb/in). I am already sitting at about 2.5 hz or so so running higher rates on the street would be a bit brutal. My setup may be for some, but I drove an STF prepped car on the street for 8 years, so I am more used to it. But yes, 600 lb/in is on the soft side for STR, especially if that is the front rate.
There are some, however, that have done well on softer setups. And if you have some venues with low grip, gritty, bumpy surfaces, the softer setup would likely be better, but for most good sites the stiffer setups tend to rule in my experience.
There are some, however, that have done well on softer setups. And if you have some venues with low grip, gritty, bumpy surfaces, the softer setup would likely be better, but for most good sites the stiffer setups tend to rule in my experience.
06-18-2015, 09:49 AM
#53
550-600 lb/in is pretty much the low end of an STR autocross or track day car. Way under a track day car with aero (spliter and wing). The Ohlins DFV which is generally sold as much as a street suspension as a track suspension comes with comes with 560/450 springs. I was thinking of TC Kline rather than Ground Control.
06-18-2015, 01:26 PM
#54
Most STR autox setups (besides those that casually autox) are somewhere around 800F/650R and up for rates. That is my setup, but I still like driving it on the street a good amount. Some are running much higher rates (upwards of 1000 lb/in). I am already sitting at about 2.5 hz or so so running higher rates on the street would be a bit brutal. My setup may be for some, but I drove an STF prepped car on the street for 8 years, so I am more used to it. But yes, 600 lb/in is on the soft side for STR, especially if that is the front rate.
There are some, however, that have done well on softer setups. And if you have some venues with low grip, gritty, bumpy surfaces, the softer setup would likely be better, but for most good sites the stiffer setups tend to rule in my experience.
There are some, however, that have done well on softer setups. And if you have some venues with low grip, gritty, bumpy surfaces, the softer setup would likely be better, but for most good sites the stiffer setups tend to rule in my experience.
06-18-2015, 01:54 PM
#55
I just noticed...isn't this forum sponsored by HKS? Doesn't the the HKS Hipermax IV GT just about fit the $1200 criteria and the very stiff HKS Hipermax IV SP just above it? BTW...they are monotubes.
06-18-2015, 02:20 PM
#56
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Originally Posted by nmrado' timestamp='1434604585' post='23652051
Internals of the PSS are the same as any 46mm Bilstein, aluminum or steel bodies. The PSS dampers use an 8mm piston bore and one of the digressive bilstein pistons (can't remember which one). There is a bilstein manual with all sorts of shim stack arrangements for both digressive and linear valving.
Second, the entire Bilstein range of standard shim stacks in their tuning manual can be downloaded here: http://www.bilsteinu...t-information/. The PDF is off of scans and is broken down into sections.
Finally, if someone was ambitious enough to make the top adapter to a spherical bearing eye, they could probably make the bottom clevis, machine the shock bottom, and have the clevis welded on. It would all be expensive to the point that triple adjustable Ohlins TTX may be cheaper. Bilstein sells their MDS shocks with the double adjuster for the Subaru BRZ; a set lists for $6000.
When these came out in 2010, I talked with Bilstein Germany for a while about what would be involved. The shaft diameter remains 14mm (PSS rod guides are compatible), as with both the PSS/PSS9. The shafting requires the use of 10mm thru-hole pistons, like the ones used in the PSS9 assemblies. The PSS pistons are not compatible with the MDS shafts.
Here's how the pin-mount looked when I stacked it on top of my upper mounts. If you were to fabricate an adapter to utilize the rod end version of the MDS adapter, it would relieve the hood clearance issue. However, you would lose a significant amount of travel in the rear. Conversely, the pin mount version of the MDS adapter wouldn't fit under the fuel filler neck in the rear. So, it's kind of a non starter because of the rear S2k configuration.
06-19-2015, 04:14 AM
#57
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Originally Posted by Back S2k' timestamp='1434633183' post='23652238
^ When I ordered from FA they asked me the weight of my car, the wheel/tire/tire model and what I was using the car for. Not that any of that made a difference because I was set on my the rates and valving I wanted. I can see how that information would be beneficial if the average joe was ordering a set. Took about 5 weeks total build time and shipping.
06-19-2015, 08:34 AM
#58
Its fun to dream of the out of the box Bilstein coilover that has a real, functioning adjuster. Or the Bilstein coilover valved for 500-600lb springs for $1200. Unfortunately it just doesn't exist. PSS is a good setup for the street. But for track duty with sticky tires, its not enough. I have done the research, at this price point the options are limited. Most people tend to go with el-cheapo stuff from ebay. For me there are only certain shock builders I will consider. I may add FA to the list, but I still think Koni is the better bet at this point.
06-19-2015, 09:57 AM
#59
Originally Posted by engifineer' timestamp='1434648869' post='23652586
Most STR autox setups (besides those that casually autox) are somewhere around 800F/650R and up for rates. That is my setup, but I still like driving it on the street a good amount. Some are running much higher rates (upwards of 1000 lb/in). I am already sitting at about 2.5 hz or so so running higher rates on the street would be a bit brutal. My setup may be for some, but I drove an STF prepped car on the street for 8 years, so I am more used to it. But yes, 600 lb/in is on the soft side for STR, especially if that is the front rate.
There are some, however, that have done well on softer setups. And if you have some venues with low grip, gritty, bumpy surfaces, the softer setup would likely be better, but for most good sites the stiffer setups tend to rule in my experience.
There are some, however, that have done well on softer setups. And if you have some venues with low grip, gritty, bumpy surfaces, the softer setup would likely be better, but for most good sites the stiffer setups tend to rule in my experience.
06-19-2015, 07:06 PM
#60
Originally Posted by DavidNJ' timestamp='1434662802' post='23652909
[quote name='engifineer' timestamp='1434648869' post='23652586']
Most STR autox setups (besides those that casually autox) are somewhere around 800F/650R and up for rates. That is my setup, but I still like driving it on the street a good amount. Some are running much higher rates (upwards of 1000 lb/in). I am already sitting at about 2.5 hz or so so running higher rates on the street would be a bit brutal. My setup may be for some, but I drove an STF prepped car on the street for 8 years, so I am more used to it. But yes, 600 lb/in is on the soft side for STR, especially if that is the front rate.
There are some, however, that have done well on softer setups. And if you have some venues with low grip, gritty, bumpy surfaces, the softer setup would likely be better, but for most good sites the stiffer setups tend to rule in my experience.
Most STR autox setups (besides those that casually autox) are somewhere around 800F/650R and up for rates. That is my setup, but I still like driving it on the street a good amount. Some are running much higher rates (upwards of 1000 lb/in). I am already sitting at about 2.5 hz or so so running higher rates on the street would be a bit brutal. My setup may be for some, but I drove an STF prepped car on the street for 8 years, so I am more used to it. But yes, 600 lb/in is on the soft side for STR, especially if that is the front rate.
There are some, however, that have done well on softer setups. And if you have some venues with low grip, gritty, bumpy surfaces, the softer setup would likely be better, but for most good sites the stiffer setups tend to rule in my experience.
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Why did you decide on stiff springs rather than stiffer bars like the Gendron 1.375" which could be used with a rear bar for balance. Karcepts also has a 1.375" option now and could go stiffer.
Also, did you consider the HKS Hipermax IV SP which comes with 16kg/mm springs front and rear?