Custom Valved Koni's and on Custom Springs
03-05-2012, 03:34 PM
#1
Registered User
Thread Starter
Custom Valved Koni's and on Custom Springs
I keep going back and forth but I am ready to settle on my suspension. I would prefer to keep it simple so I am flopping back and forth between PSS9's and Koni's w/ custom springs.
Now I know that everyone raves about their KW3's but they are more work than I want to deal with. I don't have scales I don't have the experience to properly adjust them..... I am looking for simple solutions.
The Bilstein’s have to offer the most comfortable ride out there but I am almost sure they are a downgrade with respect to handling to the factory all things considered. Additionally they do require more maintenance than a regular shock like the Koni Yellow.
The Koni's on the other hand are not height adjustable, other than the lower perch, and I am unable to find a vendor that can provide a custom spring and valves but I know there are many that can. I am running non staggered and looking to run equal front and rear spring in the 400-500 lb/in range front and rear for starters.
Any help would be greatly appreciated
Now I know that everyone raves about their KW3's but they are more work than I want to deal with. I don't have scales I don't have the experience to properly adjust them..... I am looking for simple solutions.
The Bilstein’s have to offer the most comfortable ride out there but I am almost sure they are a downgrade with respect to handling to the factory all things considered. Additionally they do require more maintenance than a regular shock like the Koni Yellow.
The Koni's on the other hand are not height adjustable, other than the lower perch, and I am unable to find a vendor that can provide a custom spring and valves but I know there are many that can. I am running non staggered and looking to run equal front and rear spring in the 400-500 lb/in range front and rear for starters.
Any help would be greatly appreciated
03-05-2012, 10:44 PM
#2
Former Moderator
The PSS9's from what I've heard are shorter than koni's and they ride similar to how a CR feels like.
Bilstein doesn't require anymore maintenance than any other damper out there.
Bilstein doesn't require anymore maintenance than any other damper out there.
03-06-2012, 06:40 AM
#3
Registered User
Thread Starter
As for maintenance, they are much more complicated primarily due to the adjustable spring seat. Most set it and forget it but if done properly the car would be corner balanced at minimum at the initial installation and checked when aligning. I don’t not have a set of scales nor do I know anyone with them however this would be a requirement with the PSS9’s.
If I could find a deal like others have at $1000-1100 for the PSS9’s I would buy them right away and pick up a set of scales with the money I saved. For that price it would be worth trying and I am sure I could do some corner balancing for others at a $100 or so and justify buying the scales.
03-06-2012, 06:50 AM
#4
What do you do with the car - If you mainly DD it and rarely auto-x and do HPDE, the PSS9 is a great option. Are you a hardcore auto-xer wanting to be more competitive?
PSS9 is not for the hardcore. I have not found pring rate info either. I know the bilsteins can be revalved for $85 a side. I am unsure on spring options and what will work, but guessing you can upgrade the spring to match. OTS Koni is comparable to OEM and again if you wanted a harcore setup, would need to get it revalved and such. All of this is all more money either up front or down the road.
So, you might be better off just getting KW's or a different coilover which is semi-custom built for your needs.
Just my 2 cents worth
PSS9 is not for the hardcore. I have not found pring rate info either. I know the bilsteins can be revalved for $85 a side. I am unsure on spring options and what will work, but guessing you can upgrade the spring to match. OTS Koni is comparable to OEM and again if you wanted a harcore setup, would need to get it revalved and such. All of this is all more money either up front or down the road.
So, you might be better off just getting KW's or a different coilover which is semi-custom built for your needs.
Just my 2 cents worth
03-06-2012, 08:45 AM
#5
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I have firsthand experience with the PSS9's and they are very soft. Like I had mentioned they have to be the smoothest riding suspension that you can put on an S2000. However per the reviews of many of the track guys and others they fail to offer any performance benefit over OEM. I have not however had the opportunity to drive an S2000 that was setup properly hard back to back with Koni’s or OEM so I cannot confirm or deny this statement.
As for maintenance, they are much more complicated primarily due to the adjustable spring seat. Most set it and forget it but if done properly the car would be corner balanced at minimum at the initial installation and checked when aligning. I don’t not have a set of scales nor do I know anyone with them however this would be a requirement with the PSS9’s.
If I could find a deal like others have at $1000-1100 for the PSS9’s I would buy them right away and pick up a set of scales with the money I saved. For that price it would be worth trying and I am sure I could do some corner balancing for others at a $100 or so and justify buying the scales.
As for maintenance, they are much more complicated primarily due to the adjustable spring seat. Most set it and forget it but if done properly the car would be corner balanced at minimum at the initial installation and checked when aligning. I don’t not have a set of scales nor do I know anyone with them however this would be a requirement with the PSS9’s.
If I could find a deal like others have at $1000-1100 for the PSS9’s I would buy them right away and pick up a set of scales with the money I saved. For that price it would be worth trying and I am sure I could do some corner balancing for others at a $100 or so and justify buying the scales.
You do not need to corner balance your car after installing adjustable height coilovers. Will corner balancing help? Probably. Is it required, no. Very few people own scales or even corner balance their car properly. I say "properly" because the surface used during corner balancing needs to be quite flat in order to obtain an accurate corner balance. If you use the fixed perch Koni setup, you're not going to be able to corner balance the car. That setup will work just fine, too.
I also have firsthand experience with the Bilsteins and can vouch for how maintenance free they are. You do not need to check the perches every time you perform an alignment. If you tighten the lower perch jam nut, the height settings are not going to change. I ran my Penskes without a perch jam nut for ~1 month and the perches didn't move even then.
Both setups can be modified to obtain whatever balance and characteristics you'd like. You can source 70mm ID (~2.75") linear rate springs for the Bilsteins in many different rates and lengths, which will allow you to change the ride frequencies and roll rates. Or, you can have the lower Bilstein perches turned to accept 2.5" ID springs which will open up a whole new realm of spring options. The Konis can be paired with a set of Ground Control adjustable height perches to allow you to run whatever spring rate and length springs you'd like. If you increase rate by a significant amount with either setup, you will need to have them revalved. That said, I wouldn't have a problem using 600 lb/in front springs and 500 lb/in rear springs with the Bilsteins.
With a little creativity, you can make either suspension system work quite well.
03-06-2012, 06:08 PM
#6
Registered User
Thread Starter
Thank you for your input.
It is my job to over think it
I am a ME and until I have investigated every avenue I can't be satisfied.
I like the Bilsteins, since the car is only at the track a small amount I see no need for anything crazy. What I don't like about them is the low spring rate, based on what I could find the spring rates are 345lbs front and 285lbs rear. Obviously spring rate is only part of the story but many have noted that going to a 500+ will produce much better results. So I may be able to start by going with a 500lb spring at all four corners but of course that will add another $300-400 to the bill.
As for the corner balancing I would make the analogy that buying coilovers and not corner balancing is like buying a IPhone and using it to only text and make calls. Sure it works but it you are going to get them you might as well take full advantage. So that leads me down the same road over complicating but if I am going to do it, it is going to be done properly.
That being said I should probably say F'it and buy Konis with CR springs and call it a day.
It is my job to over think it
I am a ME and until I have investigated every avenue I can't be satisfied.I like the Bilsteins, since the car is only at the track a small amount I see no need for anything crazy. What I don't like about them is the low spring rate, based on what I could find the spring rates are 345lbs front and 285lbs rear. Obviously spring rate is only part of the story but many have noted that going to a 500+ will produce much better results. So I may be able to start by going with a 500lb spring at all four corners but of course that will add another $300-400 to the bill.
As for the corner balancing I would make the analogy that buying coilovers and not corner balancing is like buying a IPhone and using it to only text and make calls. Sure it works but it you are going to get them you might as well take full advantage. So that leads me down the same road over complicating but if I am going to do it, it is going to be done properly.
That being said I should probably say F'it and buy Konis with CR springs and call it a day.
03-06-2012, 06:13 PM
#7
Thank you for your input.
It is my job to over think it I am a ME and until I have investigated every avenue I can't be satisfied.
I like the Bilsteins, since the car is only at the track a small amount I see no need for anything crazy. What I don't like about them is the low spring rate, based on what I could find the spring rates are 345lbs front and 285lbs rear. Obviously spring rate is only part of the story but many have noted that going to a 500+ will produce much better results. So I may be able to start by going with a 500lb spring at all four corners but of course that will add another $300-400 to the bill.
As for the corner balancing I would make the analogy that buying coilovers and not corner balancing is like buying a IPhone and using it to only text and make calls. Sure it works but it you are going to get them you might as well take full advantage. So that leads me down the same road over complicating but if I am going to do it, it is going to be done properly.
That being said I should probably say F'it and buy Konis with CR springs and call it a day.
It is my job to over think it
I am a ME and until I have investigated every avenue I can't be satisfied.I like the Bilsteins, since the car is only at the track a small amount I see no need for anything crazy. What I don't like about them is the low spring rate, based on what I could find the spring rates are 345lbs front and 285lbs rear. Obviously spring rate is only part of the story but many have noted that going to a 500+ will produce much better results. So I may be able to start by going with a 500lb spring at all four corners but of course that will add another $300-400 to the bill.
As for the corner balancing I would make the analogy that buying coilovers and not corner balancing is like buying a IPhone and using it to only text and make calls. Sure it works but it you are going to get them you might as well take full advantage. So that leads me down the same road over complicating but if I am going to do it, it is going to be done properly.
That being said I should probably say F'it and buy Konis with CR springs and call it a day.
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03-06-2012, 07:42 PM
#8
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It is my job to over think it I am a ME and until I have investigated every avenue I can't be satisfied.
I like the Bilsteins, since the car is only at the track a small amount I see no need for anything crazy. What I don't like about them is the low spring rate, based on what I could find the spring rates are 345lbs front and 285lbs rear. Obviously spring rate is only part of the story but many have noted that going to a 500+ will produce much better results. So I may be able to start by going with a 500lb spring at all four corners but of course that will add another $300-400 to the bill.
As for the corner balancing I would make the analogy that buying coilovers and not corner balancing is like buying a IPhone and using it to only text and make calls. Sure it works but it you are going to get them you might as well take full advantage. So that leads me down the same road over complicating but if I am going to do it, it is going to be done properly.
That being said I should probably say F'it and buy Konis with CR springs and call it a day.
I am a ME and until I have investigated every avenue I can't be satisfied.I like the Bilsteins, since the car is only at the track a small amount I see no need for anything crazy. What I don't like about them is the low spring rate, based on what I could find the spring rates are 345lbs front and 285lbs rear. Obviously spring rate is only part of the story but many have noted that going to a 500+ will produce much better results. So I may be able to start by going with a 500lb spring at all four corners but of course that will add another $300-400 to the bill.
As for the corner balancing I would make the analogy that buying coilovers and not corner balancing is like buying a IPhone and using it to only text and make calls. Sure it works but it you are going to get them you might as well take full advantage. So that leads me down the same road over complicating but if I am going to do it, it is going to be done properly.
That being said I should probably say F'it and buy Konis with CR springs and call it a day.
What are your goals? Casual tracking? Time attack? Auto-x? Your goals should dictate your spring selection....not interblag reviews. Most people on forums will not push their car enough or drive well enough to reach the full potential of their car. In the right hands, a stock (almost) setup is quite potent.
The single most important part of a coilover system are the dampers. Height adjustment and the ability to corner balance is an added benefit. At least you have that ability with the Bilsteins. If you go with the Konis, why not get the adjustable perches so you can change ride height and run readily available coil springs?
Then there is the mono tube vs. twin tube debate....but that's a subject for a different thread.
03-06-2012, 08:12 PM
#9
Originally Posted by MisMyS' timestamp='1331089680' post='21484065
It is my job to over think it I am a ME and until I have investigated every avenue I can't be satisfied.
I like the Bilsteins, since the car is only at the track a small amount I see no need for anything crazy. What I don't like about them is the low spring rate, based on what I could find the spring rates are 345lbs front and 285lbs rear. Obviously spring rate is only part of the story but many have noted that going to a 500+ will produce much better results. So I may be able to start by going with a 500lb spring at all four corners but of course that will add another $300-400 to the bill.
As for the corner balancing I would make the analogy that buying coilovers and not corner balancing is like buying a IPhone and using it to only text and make calls. Sure it works but it you are going to get them you might as well take full advantage. So that leads me down the same road over complicating but if I am going to do it, it is going to be done properly.
That being said I should probably say F'it and buy Konis with CR springs and call it a day.
I am a ME and until I have investigated every avenue I can't be satisfied.I like the Bilsteins, since the car is only at the track a small amount I see no need for anything crazy. What I don't like about them is the low spring rate, based on what I could find the spring rates are 345lbs front and 285lbs rear. Obviously spring rate is only part of the story but many have noted that going to a 500+ will produce much better results. So I may be able to start by going with a 500lb spring at all four corners but of course that will add another $300-400 to the bill.
As for the corner balancing I would make the analogy that buying coilovers and not corner balancing is like buying a IPhone and using it to only text and make calls. Sure it works but it you are going to get them you might as well take full advantage. So that leads me down the same road over complicating but if I am going to do it, it is going to be done properly.
That being said I should probably say F'it and buy Konis with CR springs and call it a day.
What are your goals? Casual tracking? Time attack? Auto-x? Your goals should dictate your spring selection....not interblag reviews. Most people on forums will not push their car enough or drive well enough to reach the full potential of their car. In the right hands, a stock (almost) setup is quite potent.
The single most important part of a coilover system are the dampers. Height adjustment and the ability to corner balance is an added benefit. At least you have that ability with the Bilsteins. If you go with the Konis, why not get the adjustable perches so you can change ride height and run readily available coil springs?
Then there is the mono tube vs. twin tube debate....but that's a subject for a different thread.