Getting new Tires
08-23-2011, 12:25 PM
#11
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Originally Posted by deepbluejh' timestamp='1314110736' post='20904860
Some of the responses here are puzzling.
First of all, 245/40/17 is what all standard S2000s come with. It is considered a direct, drop in replacement for 255/40/17 - and vice versa. The difference in overall height is 8mm - which is the negligible when you take into account that this is the amount of wear you will experience over the life of the tire. Basically you are within tolerance.
Secondly, the Pilot Super Sports are far and away the best Max Performance tire you can buy. They grip better than probably 1/2 of the "extreme performance" tires on the market, and won't kill you when if it happens to rain on the way back from the track. They might be a tiny bit behind the Star Spec in outright performance, but having close but not identical tires front to rear is never a big deal. I doubt you'll notice any significant performance difference. "Nasty surprise" is a gross overstatement.
Most extreme performance tires - notably the SSs - are loud, rough, and wear out quickly. The PSS will be a much friendlier tire while gripping nearly as well. It's predecessor (the "inferior" PS2) came OEM on supercars costing an order of magnitude more than the S2000 and reviewers did nothing but rave about those tires.
The PSS is a fine choice for this car if you've got the money.
First of all, 245/40/17 is what all standard S2000s come with. It is considered a direct, drop in replacement for 255/40/17 - and vice versa. The difference in overall height is 8mm - which is the negligible when you take into account that this is the amount of wear you will experience over the life of the tire. Basically you are within tolerance.
Secondly, the Pilot Super Sports are far and away the best Max Performance tire you can buy. They grip better than probably 1/2 of the "extreme performance" tires on the market, and won't kill you when if it happens to rain on the way back from the track. They might be a tiny bit behind the Star Spec in outright performance, but having close but not identical tires front to rear is never a big deal. I doubt you'll notice any significant performance difference. "Nasty surprise" is a gross overstatement.
Most extreme performance tires - notably the SSs - are loud, rough, and wear out quickly. The PSS will be a much friendlier tire while gripping nearly as well. It's predecessor (the "inferior" PS2) came OEM on supercars costing an order of magnitude more than the S2000 and reviewers did nothing but rave about those tires.
The PSS is a fine choice for this car if you've got the money.
Difference in height is 8mm. Tires wear on all edges; the pilot SS will experience 1/2" or 12.7mm of wear when at the wear bar. Given the smaller starting diameter, I think there would be a small discrepency. It doesn't take much to throw off VSA, and yes, I personally have experience with this. My tire diameter varied 2% in the front, and the car was undrivable with VSA on.
I'd love to see the Pilot SS out-grip any EHP tires on the market now. I'll put some Federals against it. Yes, there is a performance difference, and yes, you will feel it. You are simply ignorant if all you read are specs and reviews. Specs say nothing about performance under a track environment (similar to what the OP is doing). The biggest difference between a EHP and a "Max Summer" tire is not the raw grip when they're cold, but rather how well they retain grip as they get heat, and how much grip they gain as they heat up.
Given that the OP is planning on occasionally tracking the car, I don't think tire life is super high on the priority list.
Yes, there will be a nasty surprise if you mix tires. The difference doesn't come from the raw grip, but rather the difference in how different model tires will accept heat cycles, wear, heat, tire pressure, slip angle, wheelspin, sidewall loading, and driving patterns.
The PS2 was a great tire, but it is simply outdated now. There is simply better. Saying the PS2 is great is like saying the RE070 is great. Both were great tires when they were new on the market, 10 years ago. If you're looking for hydroplane resistance, neither the PSS nor any EHP tire is ideal. At that point, tread depth matters more than tread pattern.
NVH is hardly a concern. First of all, the OP is driving a s2k, which is hardly the friendliest car when it comes to NVH, and to further exacerbate that, he is driving a CR.
The PSS isn't particularly expensive, you make it sound like 800 bucks is a big deal. I stand by my original statement. If you didn't compromise on car, why compromise on tire?
08-23-2011, 01:00 PM
#12
Registered User
Originally Posted by deepbluejh' timestamp='1314110736' post='20904860
Some of the responses here are puzzling.
First of all, 245/40/17 is what all standard S2000s come with. It is considered a direct, drop in replacement for 255/40/17 - and vice versa. The difference in overall height is 8mm - which is the negligible when you take into account that this is the amount of wear you will experience over the life of the tire. Basically you are within tolerance.
Secondly, the Pilot Super Sports are far and away the best Max Performance tire you can buy. They grip better than probably 1/2 of the "extreme performance" tires on the market, and won't kill you when if it happens to rain on the way back from the track. They might be a tiny bit behind the Star Spec in outright performance, but having close but not identical tires front to rear is never a big deal. I doubt you'll notice any significant performance difference. "Nasty surprise" is a gross overstatement.
Most extreme performance tires - notably the SSs - are loud, rough, and wear out quickly. The PSS will be a much friendlier tire while gripping nearly as well. It's predecessor (the "inferior" PS2) came OEM on supercars costing an order of magnitude more than the S2000 and reviewers did nothing but rave about those tires.
The PSS is a fine choice for this car if you've got the money.
First of all, 245/40/17 is what all standard S2000s come with. It is considered a direct, drop in replacement for 255/40/17 - and vice versa. The difference in overall height is 8mm - which is the negligible when you take into account that this is the amount of wear you will experience over the life of the tire. Basically you are within tolerance.
Secondly, the Pilot Super Sports are far and away the best Max Performance tire you can buy. They grip better than probably 1/2 of the "extreme performance" tires on the market, and won't kill you when if it happens to rain on the way back from the track. They might be a tiny bit behind the Star Spec in outright performance, but having close but not identical tires front to rear is never a big deal. I doubt you'll notice any significant performance difference. "Nasty surprise" is a gross overstatement.
Most extreme performance tires - notably the SSs - are loud, rough, and wear out quickly. The PSS will be a much friendlier tire while gripping nearly as well. It's predecessor (the "inferior" PS2) came OEM on supercars costing an order of magnitude more than the S2000 and reviewers did nothing but rave about those tires.
The PSS is a fine choice for this car if you've got the money.
Difference in height is 8mm. Tires wear on all edges; the pilot SS will experience 1/2" or 12.7mm of wear when at the wear bar. Given the smaller starting diameter, I think there would be a small discrepency. It doesn't take much to throw off VSA, and yes, I personally have experience with this. My tire diameter varied 2% in the front, and the car was undrivable with VSA on.
I'd love to see the Pilot SS out-grip any EHP tires on the market now. I'll put some Federals against it. Yes, there is a performance difference, and yes, you will feel it. You are simply ignorant if all you read are specs and reviews. Specs say nothing about performance under a track environment (similar to what the OP is doing). The biggest difference between a EHP and a "Max Summer" tire is not the raw grip when they're cold, but rather how well they retain grip as they get heat, and how much grip they gain as they heat up.
Given that the OP is planning on occasionally tracking the car, I don't think tire life is super high on the priority list.
Yes, there will be a nasty surprise if you mix tires. The difference doesn't come from the raw grip, but rather the difference in how different model tires will accept heat cycles, wear, heat, tire pressure, slip angle, wheelspin, sidewall loading, and driving patterns.
The PS2 was a great tire, but it is simply outdated now. There is simply better. Saying the PS2 is great is like saying the RE070 is great. Both were great tires when they were new on the market, 10 years ago. If you're looking for hydroplane resistance, neither the PSS nor any EHP tire is ideal. At that point, tread depth matters more than tread pattern.
NVH is hardly a concern. First of all, the OP is driving a s2k, which is hardly the friendliest car when it comes to NVH, and to further exacerbate that, he is driving a CR.
The PSS isn't particularly expensive, you make it sound like 800 bucks is a big deal. I stand by my original statement. If you didn't compromise on car, why compromise on tire?
The only real issue you brought up that I do agree with is the VSA triggering. I've never heard of anyone's VSA being triggered from an extra 8mm of tire height front to rear. I'm not saying it never happens, I'm just saying I've never even heard anyone even mention this - even amongst people who ride on some crazy tire sizes.
YMMV.
08-23-2011, 04:45 PM
#13
Registered User
Originally Posted by psychoazn' timestamp='1314122150' post='20905538
[quote name='deepbluejh' timestamp='1314110736' post='20904860']
Some of the responses here are puzzling.
First of all, 245/40/17 is what all standard S2000s come with. It is considered a direct, drop in replacement for 255/40/17 - and vice versa. The difference in overall height is 8mm - which is the negligible when you take into account that this is the amount of wear you will experience over the life of the tire. Basically you are within tolerance.
Secondly, the Pilot Super Sports are far and away the best Max Performance tire you can buy. They grip better than probably 1/2 of the "extreme performance" tires on the market, and won't kill you when if it happens to rain on the way back from the track. They might be a tiny bit behind the Star Spec in outright performance, but having close but not identical tires front to rear is never a big deal. I doubt you'll notice any significant performance difference. "Nasty surprise" is a gross overstatement.
Most extreme performance tires - notably the SSs - are loud, rough, and wear out quickly. The PSS will be a much friendlier tire while gripping nearly as well. It's predecessor (the "inferior" PS2) came OEM on supercars costing an order of magnitude more than the S2000 and reviewers did nothing but rave about those tires.
The PSS is a fine choice for this car if you've got the money.
Some of the responses here are puzzling.
First of all, 245/40/17 is what all standard S2000s come with. It is considered a direct, drop in replacement for 255/40/17 - and vice versa. The difference in overall height is 8mm - which is the negligible when you take into account that this is the amount of wear you will experience over the life of the tire. Basically you are within tolerance.
Secondly, the Pilot Super Sports are far and away the best Max Performance tire you can buy. They grip better than probably 1/2 of the "extreme performance" tires on the market, and won't kill you when if it happens to rain on the way back from the track. They might be a tiny bit behind the Star Spec in outright performance, but having close but not identical tires front to rear is never a big deal. I doubt you'll notice any significant performance difference. "Nasty surprise" is a gross overstatement.
Most extreme performance tires - notably the SSs - are loud, rough, and wear out quickly. The PSS will be a much friendlier tire while gripping nearly as well. It's predecessor (the "inferior" PS2) came OEM on supercars costing an order of magnitude more than the S2000 and reviewers did nothing but rave about those tires.
The PSS is a fine choice for this car if you've got the money.
Difference in height is 8mm. Tires wear on all edges; the pilot SS will experience 1/2" or 12.7mm of wear when at the wear bar. Given the smaller starting diameter, I think there would be a small discrepency. It doesn't take much to throw off VSA, and yes, I personally have experience with this. My tire diameter varied 2% in the front, and the car was undrivable with VSA on.
I'd love to see the Pilot SS out-grip any EHP tires on the market now. I'll put some Federals against it. Yes, there is a performance difference, and yes, you will feel it. You are simply ignorant if all you read are specs and reviews. Specs say nothing about performance under a track environment (similar to what the OP is doing). The biggest difference between a EHP and a "Max Summer" tire is not the raw grip when they're cold, but rather how well they retain grip as they get heat, and how much grip they gain as they heat up.
Given that the OP is planning on occasionally tracking the car, I don't think tire life is super high on the priority list.
Yes, there will be a nasty surprise if you mix tires. The difference doesn't come from the raw grip, but rather the difference in how different model tires will accept heat cycles, wear, heat, tire pressure, slip angle, wheelspin, sidewall loading, and driving patterns.
The PS2 was a great tire, but it is simply outdated now. There is simply better. Saying the PS2 is great is like saying the RE070 is great. Both were great tires when they were new on the market, 10 years ago. If you're looking for hydroplane resistance, neither the PSS nor any EHP tire is ideal. At that point, tread depth matters more than tread pattern.
NVH is hardly a concern. First of all, the OP is driving a s2k, which is hardly the friendliest car when it comes to NVH, and to further exacerbate that, he is driving a CR.
The PSS isn't particularly expensive, you make it sound like 800 bucks is a big deal. I stand by my original statement. If you didn't compromise on car, why compromise on tire?
The only real issue you brought up that I do agree with is the VSA triggering. I've never heard of anyone's VSA being triggered from an extra 8mm of tire height front to rear. I'm not saying it never happens, I'm just saying I've never even heard anyone even mention this - even amongst people who ride on some crazy tire sizes.
YMMV.
[/quote]
PSS is very expensive for what it is and we're here to help a brother save his headaches and monies! The EHP tires we use to track are very capable in rain and dry. Hell, I drove through 4" of snow on the ground during a freak storm in January on RS3s. Did it grip? Probably enough to get the car to point in the right direction, but other than that, it's holding up just fine after 13k miles and a few trackdays. I'm by no means slow either. Psychoazn can attest to that.
However, if he's purely into just DD and some spirited low speed runs with only means to run in dry and wet, Hankook V12s are perfectly capable and will last a very long time compare to the other EHPs out on the market. On top of that, make sure the alignment is dialed appropriately to make use of your tires properly for its given purpose.
08-23-2011, 06:10 PM
#14
Registered User
Right, well the original question was basically "Are these tires ok?". The answer to that question is "yes, the tires are fine". One poster was predicting doom and gloom if these tires were fitted - which was not an accurate assessment. That's all I'm saying.
Yes, there are cheaper tires. Yes, there are higher performance tires. But if you've got the money and want a very high performance, DD friendly tire, the PSS are a great choice for the S2000 and really hard to beat.
Yes, there are cheaper tires. Yes, there are higher performance tires. But if you've got the money and want a very high performance, DD friendly tire, the PSS are a great choice for the S2000 and really hard to beat.
08-23-2011, 10:22 PM
#16
I'm getting a staggered set of Z1 Star Specs to replace my RE070's
actually the fronts are still good but the backs are getting down to the wear bars
anything wrong with having RE070's in front and Z1SS's in back for street duty?
thanks
actually the fronts are still good but the backs are getting down to the wear bars
anything wrong with having RE070's in front and Z1SS's in back for street duty?
thanks
08-23-2011, 11:16 PM
#17
Registered User
Right, well the original question was basically "Are these tires ok?". The answer to that question is "yes, the tires are fine". One poster was predicting doom and gloom if these tires were fitted - which was not an accurate assessment. That's all I'm saying.
Yes, there are cheaper tires. Yes, there are higher performance tires. But if you've got the money and want a very high performance, DD friendly tire, the PSS are a great choice for the S2000 and really hard to beat.
Yes, there are cheaper tires. Yes, there are higher performance tires. But if you've got the money and want a very high performance, DD friendly tire, the PSS are a great choice for the S2000 and really hard to beat.
Psychoazn is an amazing car nut who has probably tried many tires out so his tire suggestion is pretty good.
You'll be fine. It's bad practice, but people do it all the time. Just be smart about driving and you'll be a-o-k.
08-24-2011, 04:28 AM
#18
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Psychoazn has tried out alot of tires and written reviews from his experience. I would listen to him personally. I have also tracked alot, just not in my CR. only 2 events in this car but a third in two weeks.
Anyway, if you are looking for a good grip and water resistance the star spec performs quite well at both. I have been running star specs for years and really like them although the RS3 have better dry grip, they are scary in the rain. Like others have stated you spent the money for the CR, now do it justice by putting proper replacement rubber on it.
I myself will be using Star Specs for replacements when I change out wheels next month.
FYI the PSS warranty of 30k miles looks like it doesn't apply to staggered set ups. I am looking into this for my fathers E92 for a replacement. LOL he only will run Michelin
Anyway, if you are looking for a good grip and water resistance the star spec performs quite well at both. I have been running star specs for years and really like them although the RS3 have better dry grip, they are scary in the rain. Like others have stated you spent the money for the CR, now do it justice by putting proper replacement rubber on it.
I myself will be using Star Specs for replacements when I change out wheels next month.
FYI the PSS warranty of 30k miles looks like it doesn't apply to staggered set ups. I am looking into this for my fathers E92 for a replacement. LOL he only will run Michelin
08-24-2011, 07:28 AM
#19
08-24-2011, 08:38 AM
#20
You might get some extra understeer
For street duty, you'll be just fine.
I was averaging a set of tires every 2 months for a while...
but theses RE-11 are seriously lasting forever. I'm just about to hit the wear bear. If my car is driving okay, I'll probably finish em this weekend.