Building a system for my S2K
Former Moderator
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 18,852
Likes: 1
From: New York
I agree. If you get 75rms speakers....than 75-100 rms is great. Just that the amp is always running at 100%, and this sometimes causes heat issues. I just think for the price, the Van Gogh is slightly better....where the same 500.4 is 125x4 @ 4ohms, rather than 2.
I wouldnt recommend the stealthbox, due to the price....you can get an enclosure made, and a better sub for way less than the stealthbox.
I wouldnt recommend the stealthbox, due to the price....you can get an enclosure made, and a better sub for way less than the stealthbox.
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 329
Likes: 0
From: Tallahassee
Regarding the idea of rear speakers:
While the predominant soundstage should indeed be at the front, the problem is that with the top down, and wind rushing past at 75mph+, those 2 6.5" speakers are trying to move a LARGE volume of air, from a significant distance. Not saying that it can't be done mind you, but it's not easy.
For me, the true purpose of the rear speakers (in the SPods) is to provide sound that doesn't go away when I am on the highway with the top down. My legs tend to take quite a bit of the highs away from the left front which upsets the staging mightily. The rears don't need a lot of power as they are so close to your head anyway.
In terms of cost, in the model line of amp I am looking at, there is less than $75 between the 2x150w and the 4x150w and the case size is the same. For the $75 difference it's worth it to me to amplify the rears. That may not be the same for someone else's case.
I believe in amping the sub on it's own. A sub has very different requirements than the other speakers. You don't need a cap for coax or components. You don't have to worry about damping factors for them either. And because of the amount of air a sub can move, it requires more power normally than most other speakers. I like my amps to run cool. I know that my 4x150 will be running at less than 1/3 capacity most of the time. If I tried to add a sub onto that, it would be at 2/3 or better most of the time. A dedicated sub amp lets me worry about the proper low pass, capacitors, damping, and running cool for a minimal investment of space and time. Of course it does add a few hundered dollars to the equation.
NateDoggs2k, the nice thing is that all this stuff is changeable. Once it's all wired, you can change the components at will. That is why I prefer to wire and plan for the most gear I would want to run, and then if it isn't all utilized no harm done. What I do NOT want to do is to install a system, realize in 10 days that I really do want the rear speakers, and then spend a couple hundred bucks to have the seats and carpet pulled up, have new RCA's run back there, etc. And then 30 days later I realize that I want a sub amp, so we have to run RCAs from the head unit again for that... Just put ALL the RCA's in from the beginning, buy a cheap sub amp if you have to off Ebay, and just have it there in case you want it.
I bought a HiFonics ZX6400 last year that I never installed in my SUV. All 4 speakers are running off the Alping 9813. But if the inclination strikes, I have it to use. Or I could toss it into the S2k, just buy the SPODS and a sub/sub amp, and run like that for a few months until I can afford another top class amp for the cabin speakers.
Put the infrastructure in place, and then play with the puzzle pieces. Don't rebuild the infrastructure every time you want to add a piece.
Again, just my $.02
While the predominant soundstage should indeed be at the front, the problem is that with the top down, and wind rushing past at 75mph+, those 2 6.5" speakers are trying to move a LARGE volume of air, from a significant distance. Not saying that it can't be done mind you, but it's not easy.
For me, the true purpose of the rear speakers (in the SPods) is to provide sound that doesn't go away when I am on the highway with the top down. My legs tend to take quite a bit of the highs away from the left front which upsets the staging mightily. The rears don't need a lot of power as they are so close to your head anyway.
In terms of cost, in the model line of amp I am looking at, there is less than $75 between the 2x150w and the 4x150w and the case size is the same. For the $75 difference it's worth it to me to amplify the rears. That may not be the same for someone else's case.
I believe in amping the sub on it's own. A sub has very different requirements than the other speakers. You don't need a cap for coax or components. You don't have to worry about damping factors for them either. And because of the amount of air a sub can move, it requires more power normally than most other speakers. I like my amps to run cool. I know that my 4x150 will be running at less than 1/3 capacity most of the time. If I tried to add a sub onto that, it would be at 2/3 or better most of the time. A dedicated sub amp lets me worry about the proper low pass, capacitors, damping, and running cool for a minimal investment of space and time. Of course it does add a few hundered dollars to the equation.
NateDoggs2k, the nice thing is that all this stuff is changeable. Once it's all wired, you can change the components at will. That is why I prefer to wire and plan for the most gear I would want to run, and then if it isn't all utilized no harm done. What I do NOT want to do is to install a system, realize in 10 days that I really do want the rear speakers, and then spend a couple hundred bucks to have the seats and carpet pulled up, have new RCA's run back there, etc. And then 30 days later I realize that I want a sub amp, so we have to run RCAs from the head unit again for that... Just put ALL the RCA's in from the beginning, buy a cheap sub amp if you have to off Ebay, and just have it there in case you want it.
I bought a HiFonics ZX6400 last year that I never installed in my SUV. All 4 speakers are running off the Alping 9813. But if the inclination strikes, I have it to use. Or I could toss it into the S2k, just buy the SPODS and a sub/sub amp, and run like that for a few months until I can afford another top class amp for the cabin speakers.
Put the infrastructure in place, and then play with the puzzle pieces. Don't rebuild the infrastructure every time you want to add a piece.
Again, just my $.02
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 7,584
Likes: 1
From: Baton Rouge, LA
I just think for the price, the Van Gogh is slightly better....where the same 500.4 is 125x4 @ 4ohms, rather than 2.
*cough*Jim has had a world of hurt w/ his VanGogh...
and i also have always said that i like the flexibility of separate amps for subs and highs. if you can do it that way,
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,585
Likes: 0
From: Gainesville
Good stuff!
I do agree with Willie Gee about the soundstage. My car audio systems have always been set up with a good front soundstage and the rear speakers for fill only. Right now, I'm not thinking of having rear speakers put in, as I'm hoping my front speakers will be enough. Also, I don't want to spend extra money for S pods or make any modifications (cutting) to the area behind my seats.
I think I should have made my post "Help Me Design A System For my S2K."
I thought I had a basic idea of components and what to get, but I've gotten more confused in the process.
So, anyone want to help me design a system?????
I'll start with the headunit: Alpine 9831
6.5" Component speakers:
Amp(s):
Sub:
4gauge wire kit:
RCA's/other wires:
Goal: Clean, clear, high-quality sound and a good amount of power so that it still sounds pretty good with top down and at highway speeds.
Budget: $1,500 - $2,000 (total with labor!). Ideally, I'd like to spend <$1,500.
I do agree with Willie Gee about the soundstage. My car audio systems have always been set up with a good front soundstage and the rear speakers for fill only. Right now, I'm not thinking of having rear speakers put in, as I'm hoping my front speakers will be enough. Also, I don't want to spend extra money for S pods or make any modifications (cutting) to the area behind my seats.
I think I should have made my post "Help Me Design A System For my S2K."
I thought I had a basic idea of components and what to get, but I've gotten more confused in the process.
So, anyone want to help me design a system?????
I'll start with the headunit: Alpine 9831
6.5" Component speakers:
Amp(s):
Sub:
4gauge wire kit:
RCA's/other wires:
Goal: Clean, clear, high-quality sound and a good amount of power so that it still sounds pretty good with top down and at highway speeds.
Budget: $1,500 - $2,000 (total with labor!). Ideally, I'd like to spend <$1,500.
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,585
Likes: 0
From: Gainesville
How's this sound!
New Clarion (can't remember the model number) Headunit (comes with satellite receiver, so I only need an antenna to have Sirius).
MMATS SQ4150 amp
Eclipse Titanium 10" sub in custom enclosure
Focal 165 K2P mids/highs
????????????????
New Clarion (can't remember the model number) Headunit (comes with satellite receiver, so I only need an antenna to have Sirius).
MMATS SQ4150 amp
Eclipse Titanium 10" sub in custom enclosure
Focal 165 K2P mids/highs
????????????????
Former Moderator
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 18,852
Likes: 1
From: New York
Alpine has that as well. Only XM. Id go Alpine, but whatever you like.
As far as the Eclipse sub, while a fantastic piece of equipment, the 500.4 phoenix gold, or the MMATS (never heard of it....just read about it, and I wouldnt buy that for my car) aint gonna move it. (well)
As far as the Eclipse sub, while a fantastic piece of equipment, the 500.4 phoenix gold, or the MMATS (never heard of it....just read about it, and I wouldnt buy that for my car) aint gonna move it. (well)
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