sorry Pete, but that statement is an oxymoron. you probably talked to a generic installer help guy, and not a true technical engineer type. the highest level of dynamic power would BE peak power. thus, i stand by my assessment that 170 W represents peak power that the speaker is rated for. simultaneously? you can bet there is some portion of fudge factor built into that rating. going above 100 Wrms will be putting you deeper and deeper into that fudge factor.

the statement that distortion blows speakers is really incorrect. power blows speakers... distortion is simply a symptom of power delivery, so stating that distortion blows speakers is completely incorrect. and what kind of distortion was he referring to? clipping? mechanical? and could he mean amp clipping? head unit clipping?
the 'distortion blows speakers' routine is BS and a cheap way out of responsibility. POWER always blows speakers, and generally speaking, power blows speakers because the PEBKAC.


didn't think you had intended to bi-amp, even if you were planning on it.


a 600 Wrms @ 2 ohms should deliver a very modest and capable 300 Wrms @ 4 ohms. so, you can very competently match that amp up w/ a number of subs, as long as you assure the correct proper load.

as an example, the sub i bought for my wife's car is the JL 12W3v2. a modest sub with good SQ attributes. on it, i have a Alphasonik PWM300HCA (i think that model # is right, i'm pulling it from memory). that amp is capable of 900 Wrms @ 1ohms. instead, i have the sub wired for 4 ohms because the JL 12W3v2 is only rated to about 450 Wrms. i'm putting about 400 Wrms into it because that is what the output of the Alpha roughly is at 4 ohms (they state no official 4 ohm spec, that number is based on my own calculations.)

point being, you're not obligated to max out the amp's capabilities. and a T-class amp in subwoofer duty is essentially a D-class amp, which is perfectly suited for sub work.
you could also easily look for a 3 ohm sub solution (rare and not common) which would milk roughly 450 Wrms from that amp.

finally, you could buy 2 of William's enclosures. mount in them 2 8" high output subs w/ a 4 ohm load each. wire them in parallel for a 2 ohm total load, which would supply around 300 Wrms to each sub, which for an 8" is a pretty good bit of power.

to give you an idea of how that would sound -- simply based on a surface area comparison (a VERY rough estimate), 2 8" subs would likely sound louder than a single 10" but not quite as loud as a single 12" sub, given they all have similar excursions.


as a final point just because you do want to learn about this stuff...
take a moment to read these pages: http://www.bcae1.com/installationprimer.htm
http://www.bcae1.com/speakrat.htm
http://www.bcae1.com/2ltlpwr.htm

and finally: http://www.bcae1.com/decibel.htm
[QUOTE]A value given as decibels always has a reference, otherwise it is meaningless. If you are talking about sound pressure levels (SPL), the reference is considered to be the lowest level that can be heard by human beings. A one decibel change is considered to be the smallest change that can be percieved by the human ear.

 

oh, and here's a final thought regarding subs...

before you buy 2 8" WLaurent sub enclosures, you MAY want to visit a local shop and/or talk to John (DarkKnight) about having a custom fiberglass enclosure made for the side well that would fit a 10" sub AND let you specify exactly how much volume you needed. so you'd be able to pick just about any sub you want... it would likely cost less than 2 8" enclosures (sorry William.... ), and would be even MORE unique.

 

Pete,

No problem, thats why we are here and obviously you have come here for the same reason, to learn and get answers.

Doing the install is the best part, knowing you did it and knowing it was done right. When people see my system, now granted its not super fancy or anything, they ask where I got it installed. They always are amazed when I say I did the install. PLus, I am very paranoid about anyone working on my car.

Remember if you have any questions, on any part of the install, dont hesitate to post here, I for one can help, as I just finished my install about 2 months ago.

By the way I love that HU you selected, I saw it the other day at Best Buy, and actually thought about getting rid of my premier. I love all the features it has. But I just dont want to mess with my system, its so perfect, I am afraid to go back and have to set all the cross over points, and time alignment again. Who cares if the head unit only lasts 2 years, there will be newer and better things out then, gives you more of a reason to buy new, cool, equipment. Thats the way I look at it.

Good luck with whatever you decide on going with, keep us posted and get some pics damm it!

Pikka

 

Pete, again you're welcome to listen to my system. I have 125 watts to the MB Quarts. You should come out to the Headquarters meet on Saturday. There's supposed to ~200 cars there and for sure you'll be able to hear MB Quarts with no rears (mine) and Focal Utopia with rears (Oatnet w/ iPod and CasterDog w/ XM).

Out of all the posts in the thread I humbly think that listening to an actual professionally-tuned install of the speakers is the best advice. Why take anyone's word for it about power or biamping? I know for a fact what the right answer is for me -- I've already got it in my car

I run this setup:
Eclipse CD8053 head unit
MB Quart QSD-216 components
PPI PCX-2125 amp for those
(2) Elemental Design 8" e8a subwoofers
(2) WLaurent enclosures
Soundstream Tarantula TR 700/2
Monster Cable wiring for audio, power, and interconnects
Dynamat Xtreme in the doors
Alpine alarm with infrared proximity sensor and trunk and hood sensors

 

Thanks, guys!

It will take me some time to absorb all the info in these last posts.

For now, I just sent another e-mail to the electronics store, and asked them to change the A1504DP (150Wx4) to an A1004DP (100Wx4). I'm pretty sure the people at the electronics store are going to lose it when they find out. I think the 2 amps I ordered last week are already on the way.

I told them they could keep the $30 difference... maybe that will help a little.

Just trying to get with the program.

-Pete

 

Man, so far this electronics store kicks ass! They've already responded that they will take care of the amp change, without any questions or comments whatsoever. They said they are going to refund all of my money, too.

I've been really lucky so far. After all of the changes I've made, I haven't had to send any amps back. I've only sent back that one set of rear speakers.

There's no technical reason for this, but this is my feeling about subwoofers in the trunk:

Show car = 2 subs
Show & Go car = 1 sub
Race car = 0 sub

I'm in the 1 sub category (even if it's not the best for sound quality). I also want to mount the sub amp where the passenger side WL sub box would go.

-Pete

 

What size single? I'll be at the track on Sunday and I have two 8" subs installed. The WLaurent boxes remove in 30 seconds.

 

"Show car = 2 subs
Show & Go car = 1 sub
Race car = 0 sub"

I'm going to have one sub and I'll be hitting harder than someone with two. It's all about your box, man. The hole that holds your spare tire accessories is easily 2 cubes...but if you drop a sub in there and seal it then you'll get no sound up front. Now the smart thing to do is to glass the entire trunk and have a slot port going up where the spare tire is supposed to be. Keep in mind I'm more for SPL over SQ any day.

If you want your car to go fast, don't get a system. If you want to hit hard, your car won't go fast. Pick one.

I have:
1 Kicker Solo X 12(dual 2 ohm)
1 Kicker KX1200.1
1 Kicker KX450.2
Pair of Kicker Resolution RS6 components
1 Pioneer DEH-P8600MP
1 Optima Yellow Top Battery
36 SQ FT Dynamat Xtreme

Just need:
150 amp Amptech alternator
Fiberglass box

BTW...those Audiobahn subs were a mistake. Audiobahn is known for their floppy sounding subs. Most people who use Audiobahn subs just get them because they look good. You'll regret getting them when you hear them...unless you like sounding like crap.

 

I previously mentioned that I want to modify the WL box. What I want to do is to put an 11" diameter MDF tube extension that will attach to the front of the box. There will be an angled cut on the extension tube to mount the sub, so that the speaker is closer to the box on top, and further away on the bottom, (the speaker will angle up about 30 degrees). That way, the trunk lid hinge won't hit the top of the speaker, and extending the bottom out provides more volume in the box.

I can do the same thing with a custom enclosure, but I don't think I'm going to gain much more volume. I mocked up the modified WL box, so I guess I can do the same for a custom enclosure to get a volume estimate.

If I can get enough volume for a better sub, then maybe I'll go with a custom box. I'm fairly partial to the modified WL enclosure, because after I mocked it up, I really like the way it looks, I've never seen anything like it.

Some subs aren't a good choice for this mounting location. For example, the Rockford Fosgate Power T110D2 Sub (600W @ 2 ohms). The mounting depth is 6 7/8 inches, plus it

 

This thread is going on forever