These debates about gears always end the same, and I always just give up. People just don't understand the mathematical certainty that there is nothing truly "gained" when changing final drive ratios. I just want the OP to understand that he should really spend some time analyzing his driving habits, usual crusing speeds, downshifting, and performance goals so he can calculate what specific gear ratio would give him the best experience. I believe Honda got it right with the AP1, then messed it up with the AP2 by shortening the gearing AND lowering the rev limiter. The AP1 can almost hit 66 MPH in 2nd gear, but the AP2 can only reach 58! Why would anyone want to restrict that down even further? That's without even mentioning how sucky it winds up being on the highway... uke:

 

If anyone is expecting and kind of "low end" out of this car, you bought the wrong car, simple as that. Adding some gears to make it a little more peppy off the line is like pissing in the wind if you ask me. If you want shorter gears, fine.. but "improving" the low end on a street car by shortening the gearing (on a car with already very short gears) doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.

 

i do agree with you in some aspect. gears do not add any horsepower but it changes how it is applied. it "feels" like there is more torque but it decreases top speed in each gear. when changing gear, i though about it long and hard, took me about a year and a half to finally pull the trigger. i honestly didn't mind losing speed in each gear because the increased "feel" was a bigger gain for me. 4.44 on the freeway is not that different than stock. cruising at 70 mph in stock gearing is 3700ish and 4.44 is 4000ish. only a 300rpm difference. but i do agree that the decreased speed in each gear can be very disadvantageous depending on the track or the lay out of autox. i had flashpro before i had the gears. and i do agree that the longer gearing or should i say the ability to stay in a certain gear longer was pretty awesome. but oh well, i my opinion what i lost, i gain so much more back. i love my 4.44, when i broke my last set, i could have gone back to stock or even gone to 4.77 but no, i kept with the 4.44 ratio. i guess to each his own. also, i remember you saying you had 4.77. yea i think that is a nightmare of a ratio. people who say they love them, i think they are nuts. i absolutely cannot see that being advantageous anywhere.


also, it doesn't improve low end but it does make it feel easier to drive around town. it helps make up for the lack of torque this car has. just my 2 cents.

also, why the hell are we off topic? this is the wrong forum to be talking about gears. there is a whole thread else where for this crap. lol just saying.

low end is going to suck on this car. agree to disagree. but flashpro with help tremendously in the midrange, with is also lacking in this car. this car stock, was like step on the gas, nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing, BAMMMM VTEC!!!!!!! VTEC KICK IN YO!!! and when you only have 2000 rpms of power, it sucks. it just isn't enough.

 

If you compare max speed per gear and torque to the ground for a stock AP2 and an AP1 with 4.77's, they are almost identical (gears 1-4). Putting 4.44's in an AP2 would be about like putting 5.16's in an AP1.

 

That is interesting. But getting flaspro and raising the revlimiter does help somewhat bring the speed in each gear back to stock.

 

Well..after all of this I truly agree with ans2k...sure..gears don't add
anything measurable..e.g. torque nm..horsepower nm..but let me borrow
from my biking backround...
with what power a person can produce...I know when I shift to a smaller
gear I'm gone until the gear runs out and I shift to a higher gear.

With limited power in this car..by gearing I think you are using what
the car is giving you to it's fullest....why was the Civic SI(1999)
giving a 4.40 FD? idf you remember it was a paltry 160HP..

Back to the purpose of this thread....if I just did the Flashpro with
no other changes(no TP..no CAI.no header..no exhaust)
would I gain any performance?
of course I'm thinking dyno tune to go with the Flashpro..but
nothing else.
Would it be worth the estimated $850?

 

The final drive ultimately means squadoosh, as the gears themselves are taller in the Si.. Gearing is all personal preference. The JDM ITR had an even shorter FD, and it had more torque/power than the Si.. To each his own.

 

would it be safe to say that rolling between 0-34.5 the 4.44 has the advantage over the 4.1, same with rolling at 37.8 - 53.5? and same as rolling at 54.5 - 73.8?

if thats the case, what would be the speeds for a 4.77 advantage?

while were on the ems section... gernby what do you think about the kpro ap1 basemap?

 

Love my 4.56s in my AP1. (on it when I bought the car so I can't really compare to the car w/o). 5k RPM at 80mph is kind of annoying though.

 

Not safe to say at all! In fact, If you were to do a rolling start drag race from about 20 MPH, the small advantage that you would have from 20-34.5 would not compare to the huge advantage that the stock gear'ed S2000 would have from 34.5-37.8. Basically, you would slowly inch ahead a bit until you had to shift to 2nd, then as soon as you shift, the stock S2000 would shoot past you until he had to shift. You would start creeping forward again, but every time you had to shift, the stock geared S2000 would pass you again. The only time you know for sure that the lower geared S2000 would always win is if you get the full benefit of 1st gear (i.e. from a stop).